WHOA - Mike Babcock OUT | Sheldon Keefe IN

[Highlander]

I agree that Babcock was the right coach at the time he was hired, for a variety of reasons. If for no other, his signing brought legitimacy, indicated that ownership was serious about doing what was needed to build a contender. And he did well for a couple of years - handled the tank year well and also the first couple of years (first in particular) when the Leafs had all the rookies in the lineup. But the clock ran out and it was obvious that the team wasn't responding anymore. I don't know if they players intentionally "tanked" this year to get rid of him (hope not) or if they were just tired of his act but the result is the same.

I don't think the players wanted to lose.  I think that when they were pushed in to roles that they weren't comfortable with they weren't able to perform at the level they were used to.  Then they started to make mistakes.  Then the confidence goes, and the losing continues.  It's a bad downward cycle.

I don't think they wanted to lose either, but they probably wanted Babcock gone so they stopped listening to him (or just didn't give maximum effort because they didn't like the style of play, or weren't getting results, etc). Then it spiraled. But I'm sure there were discussions among players about what was going on and what the end result would be. It could be a fine line, where they didn't consciously "tank" or lose but they chose not to give maximum effort. Same result in either case.

I think Babcock was trying to get them to play a style that he thought would win in the playoffs.  I think his belief was that through repetition they would get it and get better, so he was willing to sacrifice the wins at the start of the year for a more complete team at the end of it.

We'll see if the system that Dubas and Keefe want to play will work when there is a 7 game series and teams have more of an opportunity to exploit weaknesses.  Also the players will need to have something left in the tank.  Kind of reminds me of the style the Phoenix Suns wanted to play in the NBA when they had Nash and D'Antoni was their coach.  Although, when the Bruins went to Cassidy from Julien, a lot of people didn't think they would be as successful, and they were, so maybe this will work here.  I'm not saying it won't work, because Keefe was successful in the AHL playoffs, and it seems like he will adjust when he sees something isn't working, but there is only so much you can adjust when you have locked yourself in to a certain type of player.

Yep. The interesting thing is the team played some really good hockey (aside from special teams) in that Boston series, even with Kadri out. I thought that perhaps they had taken a big step forward and could build on that and was really quite shocked about how things went this year. I imagine the injuries and number of new players probably did play a role in how things went, and perhaps things would look very different had the team been healthy to start. We'll never know of course.

Everyone goes to a different level in the playoffs, big money and dreams of the cup.  No need for outside motivation.

[OldTimeHockey]

The last two periods of last night's game looked an awful lot like Babcock hockey. I wouldn't be so quick to say the players have suddenly started buying in again. Different boss but its the same employees. I'm betting they regress after the initial "we got a new boss" effect wears off.

And I'll eat my hat if they don't.

[AvroArrow]

What kind of hat?

[sickbeast]

What colour is the hat?

[disco]

https://twitter.com/IanGraph/status/1198770855691591681

[Strangelove]

The last two periods of last night's game looked an awful lot like Babcock hockey. I wouldn't be so quick to say the players have suddenly started buying in again. Different boss but its the same employees. I'm betting they regress after the initial "we got a new boss" effect wears off.

And I'll eat my hat if they don't.

In what way was that Babcock hockey? I'm not even trying to be funny - the Leafs have had few (if any?) multi-goal leads all year. Being ahead is foreign territory right now.

[herman]

https://twitter.com/IanGraph/status/1198770855691591681

Big yikes

https://twitter.com/racheldoerrie/status/1198788860588830721

[Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate]

Who knew that Babcock was the personification of evil?  And incompetent on top of it?  By golly, if only they had had Keefe on board the last two seasons, they would have racked up 110 and 105 points instead of 105 and 100.

[Bates]

Who knew that Babcock was the personification of evil?  And incompetent on top of it?  By golly, if only they had had Keefe on board the last two seasons, they would have racked up 110 and 105 points instead of 105 and 100.

Maybe even a series win.

[herman]

https://theleafsnation.com/2019/11/24/tulloch-why-the-leafs-needed-to-fire-mike-babcock/

[lamajama]

If this is true, it is very disturbing that this was not dealt with by Shanahan. I'm not sure how he couldn't know or even that Mngmt didn't put two and two together during negs with Marner.

Obviously the Leafs wouldn't want this out and in the same breath how there were seemingly no apparent repercussions as this happened 3 years ago. Given Babcock's antics over his tenure maybe he banked (some pun intended) on Leafs not wanting to be embarrassed. 

Would love to know just how true or not this is.

The knives have been out for him since he left, and some deserved for sure but it now seems like a massive piling-on.

[Nik]

For what it's worth, when I posted the Fraser thread I wasn't doing so to say "Babcock isn't liked by his players, therefore he's a bad guy and deserved to be fired" but rather that it seemed to indicate he was the kind of guy who might develop unreasonable tendencies and maybe be stubborn about it.

[mr grieves]

Obviously the Leafs wouldn't want this out and in the same breath how there were seemingly no apparent repercussions as this happened 3 years ago. Given Babcock's antics over his tenure maybe he banked (some pun intended) on Leafs not wanting to be embarrassed. 

I would guess he banked on winning and believed this sort of stuff is how he gets the team to win. He's a good coach, whatever shabby treatment he inflicts on players, as long as his team's winning -- when it's not, no one's inclined to give anyone like that a break.

Sounds like his antics did the Leafs no favors in locking up their core.

[OldTimeHockey]

The last two periods of last night's game looked an awful lot like Babcock hockey. I wouldn't be so quick to say the players have suddenly started buying in again. Different boss but its the same employees. I'm betting they regress after the initial "we got a new boss" effect wears off.

And I'll eat my hat if they don't.

In what way was that Babcock hockey? I'm not even trying to be funny - the Leafs have had few (if any?) multi-goal leads all year. Being ahead is foreign territory right now.

The lack of ability to break the puck out of their zone. The lack of offensive opportunities. The idiotic passes across laterally across their own zone when they've already been trapped for 1:30.
Perhaps Babcock hockey is the wrong term, as no coach would teach the above tendencies.  My point is; in the second and third period of the game in Colorado, the Leafs played exactly how they were playing the 23 games before Keefe showed up. Sloppy and irresponsible.

[Peter D.]

https://twitter.com/IanGraph/status/1198770855691591681

NHL executives are stupid.

This is right up there with teams asking draft eligible players if they'd be willing to take a pill that would kill them in 10 years if it guarantees them winning a Stanley Cup.  Stupid sh!t like this just needs to get out of hockey.