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Started by Nik, October 21, 2019, 09:17:39 PM
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Quote from: Bender on October 22, 2019, 07:51:16 AMI'm kind of ok with a minority government. I don't know why so many political analysts are calling so much doom and gloom here. We've always been a fairly divided country and whether we throw it behind one party or multiple parties to me is kind of missing the mark. You can win a majority government with 38.5% of the popular vote - that doesn't make me think the country is any less divided, and if we had proportional representation we'd see political divides more accurately I think. The system really skews your view of the actual opinions of voters imo.
Quote from: hockeyfan1 on October 22, 2019, 07:07:14 AMThe rise of the Bkoc Quebecois: the how and the why:For the first time in recent history, according to Scotiabank, Quebec's economy will lead the country in GDP growth this year.There are construction cranes not just in Montreal, but across the province. Mid-sized cities — like Trois-Rivières, Sherbrooke and Drummondville — are growing and adapting to the opportunities of a high-tech economy.Along their main streets, help-wanted signs can be spotted in just about every other storefront window.This is a relatively new experience in a province where for years a sluggish economy was understood to be the byproduct of continuous referendum uncertainty.But the long-term prospects of this growth face significant hurdles thanks to an aging population that is leaving the workforce in droves.Economists, business lobbies and mayors are pleading for more workers, for immigrants. But these pleas confront more deeply embedded concerns: Will they speak French? Will they adopt our values?The perception among many Quebecers — especially those older and living outside of Montreal — is that the Trudeau government was deaf to these concerns.As have similar anxieties elsewhere in the world, in Quebec they have been channeled into nationalism. That is what the Bloc is offering voters.Story:https://ca.news.yahoo.com/why-bloc-qu-b-cois-141134493.html
Quote from: Nik Bethune on October 22, 2019, 09:02:37 AMOne thing I really don't get though is why there's all this focus on the Leaders when it really seems to me like was an election about policy. Admittedly, at a point where the Conservatives probably wanted to distance themselves from Trump/Ford-esque conservatism being led by a guy with an American passport who fudged his resume didn't help but I still think what sunk them is their lack of a clear message. Obviously there was a massive problem for the Conservatives in that the traditional measurements of the economy that they like to use(Stock Market, GDP, Unemployment Rate) are actually doing very well right now so they couldn't really paint Trudeau as having wrecked the economy. They tried to make a big deal about deficit spending but in a country where most people have mortgages and student loans, it's pretty tough to tell people that spending money you don't have adds up to fiscal irresponsibility. So what were they left with? Vague pledges to lower taxes and cut spending, mainly. Now, I understand that modern Conservative economic theory relies on the pillars of Lower Taxes and Less Spending but even then they muddled on messages. When the NDP and Liberals say they'll cut my phone bill, I get that. Every Conservative ad I saw seemed to talk about various tax credits and assorted esoterica within the tax code which may very well have lowered some people's end of year tab but honestly, I didn't even know if any of it would have applied to me as I don't do my own taxes. Then there's the spending. I know conservatives like to paint themselves as the grown-ups making tough choices and being honest with people vs. progressives and their fanciful promises but that didn't come through at all either. We saw it Ontario where Ford ran on cutting unspecified "waste" but when elected all of a sudden "waste" meant higher class sizes in schools and less money for disabled people. I think most voters understand that if you're going to cut taxes while caring about the deficit it means spending cuts and those spending cuts have to come from somewhere. I get that actually detailing what money you're cutting isn't popular but, well, if you're going to run on fiscal conservatism you need to be upfront about it.Again, this is an issue where Progressives, even if you disagree with them, have a much clearer message. Deficit Spending? Acceptable. How are you going to finance new Pharma or Dental Care programs? Higher taxes on Businesses and the Wealthy. Throw in a lack of actual measurable policy on an issue like Climate Change, which is a major and growing concern for Canadians, and I just don't even know what this election was for for the Conservatives.
Quote from: Bender on October 22, 2019, 09:39:33 AMWell, I mean Toronto was always going to be a hard area for the cons to make inroads considering what we're seeing with the provincial government also. Where else would the Cons have made gains potentially? Atlantic Canada? Seems hard to see how the cons had a true path to victory here, but that's exacerbated by what you mention above. How long can cons act like it's the 50s and completely ignore climate science? How effective is MONEY IN YOUR POCKET sloganeering really? Cons have generally not done a very good job of managing the deficit in general either as far as I remember.
Quote from: Bender on October 22, 2019, 09:39:33 AMEdit: I'm a bit young to really know the term, but weren't there Red Tories in the past?
Quote from: Nik Bethune on October 22, 2019, 10:02:03 AMI just don't think there's an easy work around for the simple reality that every election in this country the Liberals + NDP + Greens are getting 50-55% of the vote and that's trending up, not down.
Quote from: CarltonTheBear on October 22, 2019, 10:10:17 AMMore like 60%, but yeah:
Quote from: Nik Bethune on October 22, 2019, 10:15:18 AMQuote from: CarltonTheBear on October 22, 2019, 10:10:17 AMMore like 60%, but yeah:The three parties I mentioned are 50-55%. Getting up to 60% depends on counting the Bloc as a "Left-Leaning" party which is a stretch even when they're not actively talking about sovereignty.
Quote from: CarltonTheBear on October 22, 2019, 10:32:13 AMThey seem pretty left-leaning in their current state, no (I mean if you had to say if they were right or left of centre)? I guess there probably were times in that graph where that got a lot more muddy, especially when the sovereignty talk was being pushed harder.
Quote from: Nik Bethune on October 22, 2019, 10:38:53 AMWell, I suppose to some extent that depends on where you'd define the centre. If the Liberals are the centre are the Bloc to the left of them? On some things, I suppose. But maybe I'm overemphasizing its importance but their bill 21 seems pretty antithetical to modern progressivism. Especially when the leader of the NDP is a guy who'd have to take his turban off if he wanted to work at Quebec's DMV.
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