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2019-2020 NHL Thread

Started by CarltonTheBear, June 19, 2019, 10:19:22 AM

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Nik


Resisting arrest does not give a police officer the right to shoot someone, holding and using a deadly weapon does. The whole point of the comparison is that Blake was killed without cause while Rittenhouse wasn't even arrested despite cause.
I wish to hell I'd never said "Winning isn't everything it's the only thing". What I believe is, if you go out on a football field, or any endeavour in life, and you leave every fibre of what you have on the field, then you've won.
- Vince Lombardi

louisstamos

Quote from: Nik on August 28, 2020, 09:07:20 AM

Resisting arrest does not give a police officer the right to shoot someone, holding and using a deadly weapon does. The whole point of the comparison is that Blake was killed without cause while Rittenhouse wasn't even arrested despite cause.

Quick correction - Blake is at least still alive, although sounds like he's paralyzed from the waist down.  Doesn't detract from the severity of what happened though - they honestly tried to kill him.

Nik

Quote from: louisstamos on August 28, 2020, 09:15:58 AM
Quote from: Nik on August 28, 2020, 09:07:20 AM

Resisting arrest does not give a police officer the right to shoot someone, holding and using a deadly weapon does. The whole point of the comparison is that Blake was killed without cause while Rittenhouse wasn't even arrested despite cause.

Quick correction - Blake is at least still alive, although sounds like he's paralyzed from the waist down.  Doesn't detract from the severity of what happened though - they honestly tried to kill him.

Fair enough. I meant "shot" but clarity is important here.
I wish to hell I'd never said "Winning isn't everything it's the only thing". What I believe is, if you go out on a football field, or any endeavour in life, and you leave every fibre of what you have on the field, then you've won.
- Vince Lombardi

Bates

Quote from: Nik on August 28, 2020, 09:07:20 AM

Resisting arrest does not give a police officer the right to shoot someone, holding and using a deadly weapon does. The whole point of the comparison is that Blake was killed without cause while Rittenhouse wasn't even arrested despite cause.

It certainly does not but when you resist you greatly increase the chances of the situation going the sideways. The comparison does not work

Andy

Quote from: Nik on August 28, 2020, 09:07:20 AM

Resisting arrest does not give a police officer the right to shoot someone

Maybe this is a product of people rarely (if at all) being in that drastic of a situation but it's amazing how many times I've heard that ridiculous "don't resist" nonsense. A police officer shouldn't be allowed to kill or shoot somebody for not listening to them; particularly somebody who is not an immediate threat to anyone or anything. End of that freaking discussion.

Nik

Quote from: Bates on August 28, 2020, 09:22:37 AM
It certainly does not but when you resist you greatly increase the chances of the situation going the sideways. The comparison does not work

It highlights the discrepancy between how a black person was treated while not giving cause for lethal violence vs. how a white person was treated while giving cause. That they did not do the same thing is central to the topic at hand. If you don't understand how comparisons are useful even between two dissimilar things then that's on you and your capacity, or lack thereof, for critical thinking.
I wish to hell I'd never said "Winning isn't everything it's the only thing". What I believe is, if you go out on a football field, or any endeavour in life, and you leave every fibre of what you have on the field, then you've won.
- Vince Lombardi

Bender

Quote from: Bates on August 28, 2020, 09:22:37 AM
Quote from: Nik on August 28, 2020, 09:07:20 AM

Resisting arrest does not give a police officer the right to shoot someone, holding and using a deadly weapon does. The whole point of the comparison is that Blake was killed without cause while Rittenhouse wasn't even arrested despite cause.

It certainly does not but when you resist you greatly increase the chances of the situation going the sideways. The comparison does not work

And yet holding and firing an assault weapon at peaceful protestors and literally killing people does not put a white person in similar danger. Excuse me? We saw this with Dylan Roof too. How many times do we have to go around this merry-go-round? There's always some level of excuse to justify police brutality and it's getting tiresome. Nobody deserves to be paralyzed for resisting arrest. The police aren't The Punisher or Judge Dredd. Their job is to use the least force possible to subdue somebody and 7 bullets is excessive force. How many of us condoned the killing of Sammy Yatim when it happened here?

Maybe next we're going to say Breonna Taylor shouldn't have been living at her address?, or Philando Castille shouldn't have been driving at all.
"They say you can judge a man by the company he keeps. So here is the professor's oldest friend, a grotesque, stinking lobster." - Bender

Bates

Quote from: Nik on August 28, 2020, 09:30:51 AM
Quote from: Bates on August 28, 2020, 09:22:37 AM
It certainly does not but when you resist you greatly increase the chances of the situation going the sideways. The comparison does not work

It highlights the discrepancy between how a black person was treated while not giving cause for lethal violence vs. how a white person was treated while giving cause. That they did not do the same thing is central to the topic at hand. If you don't understand how comparisons are useful even between two dissimilar things then that's on you and your capacity, or lack thereof, for critical thinking.

I have seen no evidence that the White person posed any threat so only considering only Race is not a valid comparison. The Officer should be charged

Nik

Quote from: Bates on August 28, 2020, 09:42:31 AM
I have seen no evidence that the White person posed any threat

He killed two people.
I wish to hell I'd never said "Winning isn't everything it's the only thing". What I believe is, if you go out on a football field, or any endeavour in life, and you leave every fibre of what you have on the field, then you've won.
- Vince Lombardi

Bates

Quote from: Bender on August 28, 2020, 09:39:46 AM
Quote from: Bates on August 28, 2020, 09:22:37 AM
Quote from: Nik on August 28, 2020, 09:07:20 AM

Resisting arrest does not give a police officer the right to shoot someone, holding and using a deadly weapon does. The whole point of the comparison is that Blake was killed without cause while Rittenhouse wasn't even arrested despite cause.

It certainly does not but when you resist you greatly increase the chances of the situation going the sideways. The comparison does not work

And yet holding and firing an assault weapon at peaceful protestors and literally killing people does not put a white person in similar danger. Excuse me? We saw this with Dylan Roof too. How many times do we have to go around this merry-go-round? There's always some level of excuse to justify police brutality and it's getting tiresome. Nobody deserves to be paralyzed for resisting arrest. The police aren't The Punisher or Judge Dredd. Their job is to use the least force possible to subdue somebody and 7 bullets is excessive force. How many of us condoned the killing of Sammy Yatim when it happened here?

Maybe next we're going to say Breonna Taylor shouldn't have been living at her address?, or Philando Castille shouldn't have been driving at all.

Careful getting down from your soapbox. The Officer should be charged but that does not mean he should have shot the White guy to be equal, the situations aren't.

Bates

Quote from: Nik on August 28, 2020, 09:46:12 AM
Quote from: Bates on August 28, 2020, 09:42:31 AM
I have seen no evidence that the White person posed any threat

He killed two people.

To the Officer

Guilt Trip

Quote from: Bates on August 28, 2020, 09:46:34 AM
Quote from: Bender on August 28, 2020, 09:39:46 AM
Quote from: Bates on August 28, 2020, 09:22:37 AM
Quote from: Nik on August 28, 2020, 09:07:20 AM

Resisting arrest does not give a police officer the right to shoot someone, holding and using a deadly weapon does. The whole point of the comparison is that Blake was killed without cause while Rittenhouse wasn't even arrested despite cause.

It certainly does not but when you resist you greatly increase the chances of the situation going the sideways. The comparison does not work

And yet holding and firing an assault weapon at peaceful protestors and literally killing people does not put a white person in similar danger. Excuse me? We saw this with Dylan Roof too. How many times do we have to go around this merry-go-round? There's always some level of excuse to justify police brutality and it's getting tiresome. Nobody deserves to be paralyzed for resisting arrest. The police aren't The Punisher or Judge Dredd. Their job is to use the least force possible to subdue somebody and 7 bullets is excessive force. How many of us condoned the killing of Sammy Yatim when it happened here?

Maybe next we're going to say Breonna Taylor shouldn't have been living at her address?, or Philando Castille shouldn't have been driving at all.

Careful getting down from your soapbox. The Officer should be charged but that does not mean he should have shot the White guy to be equal, the situations aren't.
But he would have been justified in shooting a man with an assault rifle that shot at and killed protestors. There's no justification for shooting Jacob 7 f'n times in the back.

Nik

Quote from: Bates on August 28, 2020, 09:48:23 AM
To the Officer

The threat doesn't need to be to an officer to justify force. Killing people, any people, justifies an arrest and force if necessary.

But, again, until you can grasp that situations are comparable even when not identical you're probably just going to keep flailing around pathetically in search of a point.
I wish to hell I'd never said "Winning isn't everything it's the only thing". What I believe is, if you go out on a football field, or any endeavour in life, and you leave every fibre of what you have on the field, then you've won.
- Vince Lombardi

Bates

Quote from: Guilt Trip on August 28, 2020, 09:50:36 AM
Quote from: Bates on August 28, 2020, 09:46:34 AM
Quote from: Bender on August 28, 2020, 09:39:46 AM
Quote from: Bates on August 28, 2020, 09:22:37 AM
Quote from: Nik on August 28, 2020, 09:07:20 AM

Resisting arrest does not give a police officer the right to shoot someone, holding and using a deadly weapon does. The whole point of the comparison is that Blake was killed without cause while Rittenhouse wasn't even arrested despite cause.

It certainly does not but when you resist you greatly increase the chances of the situation going the sideways. The comparison does not work

And yet holding and firing an assault weapon at peaceful protestors and literally killing people does not put a white person in similar danger. Excuse me? We saw this with Dylan Roof too. How many times do we have to go around this merry-go-round? There's always some level of excuse to justify police brutality and it's getting tiresome. Nobody deserves to be paralyzed for resisting arrest. The police aren't The Punisher or Judge Dredd. Their job is to use the least force possible to subdue somebody and 7 bullets is excessive force. How many of us condoned the killing of Sammy Yatim when it happened here?

Maybe next we're going to say Breonna Taylor shouldn't have been living at her address?, or Philando Castille shouldn't have been driving at all.

Careful getting down from your soapbox. The Officer should be charged but that does not mean he should have shot the White guy to be equal, the situations aren't.
But he would have been justified in shooting a man with an assault rifle that shot at and killed protestors. There's no justification for shooting Jacob 7 f'n times in the back.

I think I have written several times that I think the Officer should be charged. But expecting him to shoot an armed murder who isn't threatening anyone when Officer gets there 8s a bad comparison

bustaheims

Quote from: Bates on August 28, 2020, 09:48:23 AM
Quote from: Nik on August 28, 2020, 09:46:12 AM
Quote from: Bates on August 28, 2020, 09:42:31 AM
I have seen no evidence that the White person posed any threat

He killed two people.

To the Officer

He was carrying an assault rifle - one that was illegally brought across state lines, for that matter. If he was a black man, there would have been dozens of shots taken at him in the same circumstances.

Jacob Blake did not have a weapon at the time of the shooting, and took 7 shots in the back. He wasn't a threat to anyone's life.
"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan