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Contracts for the Big-3

Started by Coco-puffs, June 11, 2018, 03:37:11 PM

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Frank E

The thing that comes to mind for me is that these young Leafs are also RFAs, and not UFAs...so there's some leverage there as well, at least in the short term.

Nik

Quote from: Frank E on June 12, 2018, 11:33:58 AM
The thing that comes to mind for me is that these young Leafs are also RFAs, and not UFAs...so there's some leverage there as well, at least in the short term.

Didn't help the Oilers much.
I wish to hell I'd never said "Winning isn't everything it's the only thing". What I believe is, if you go out on a football field, or any endeavour in life, and you leave every fibre of what you have on the field, then you've won.
- Vince Lombardi

Guilt Trip

Quote from: Nik the Trik on June 12, 2018, 11:47:21 AM
Quote from: Frank E on June 12, 2018, 11:33:58 AM
The thing that comes to mind for me is that these young Leafs are also RFAs, and not UFAs...so there's some leverage there as well, at least in the short term.

Didn't help the Oilers much.
They have an idiot for a GM tho.

Nik

Quote from: Guilt Trip on June 12, 2018, 12:51:06 PMThey have an idiot for a GM tho.

Did they? So what leverage would a smart GM have had if McDavid demanded 14 million and not a penny less? Let Connor McDavid sit? Let him sign an offer sheet and take picks for a generational talent?
I wish to hell I'd never said "Winning isn't everything it's the only thing". What I believe is, if you go out on a football field, or any endeavour in life, and you leave every fibre of what you have on the field, then you've won.
- Vince Lombardi

Frank E

Quote from: Nik the Trik on June 12, 2018, 11:47:21 AM
Quote from: Frank E on June 12, 2018, 11:33:58 AM
The thing that comes to mind for me is that these young Leafs are also RFAs, and not UFAs...so there's some leverage there as well, at least in the short term.

Didn't help the Oilers much.

I don't know how to quantify it.

Guilt Trip

Quote from: Nik the Trik on June 12, 2018, 12:56:08 PM
Quote from: Guilt Trip on June 12, 2018, 12:51:06 PMThey have an idiot for a GM tho.

Did they? So what leverage would a smart GM have had if McDavid demanded 14 million and not a penny less? Let Connor McDavid sit? Let him sign an offer sheet and take picks for a generational talent?
Yes the idiot is still in place. The issue isn't with McDavid's contract or any generational talent like him. Those guy's get paid, just like Matthews will...It's Dri's contract. Oilers had leverage with him, they didn't use it.

mr grieves

The Matthews contract has its own thread, but that's the least interesting of them all (it'll be $11m).

Marner's will be interesting to see.

Came across players who've had similar production. Here are the PPG, the age the players were when doing it, and the circumstances under which they signed their second contract.

Player.................GP........Pts........PPG.......Age...........Signed?......CH%......Length.....
D Pastrnak1731230.7118-20at expiry8.89%6
T Hall126950.7519-20after yr210.00%7
V Tarasenko1791350.7521-23at expiry10.27%8
B Ryan1681310.7820-22holdout8.59%5
J Eberle1471190.8120-21after yr210.00%6
M Marner1591300.8219-20?????????
J Gaudreau1591420.8921-22holdout9.25%6
P Kane1621580.9819-20after yr211.09%5

Nik


I know people can get sick of my relentless optimism but I do think that of the three contracts, Marner is the one where we're most likely to be pleasantly surprised by the number. Because he's local, because he's more of a set-up guy than a scorer, because I sort of suspect that he's benefitted as much as anyone by the Leafs choosing to balance their scoring lines...I don't know. I know we all think he'll get more than Nylander but I wouldn't be shocked if they're real close.
I wish to hell I'd never said "Winning isn't everything it's the only thing". What I believe is, if you go out on a football field, or any endeavour in life, and you leave every fibre of what you have on the field, then you've won.
- Vince Lombardi

mr grieves

I think it's probably true that Marner's number will be lower than we might expect... but I still think his peers' contracts mean we should adjust what constitutes 'pleasantly surprising' from, say, $7m x 8 or $5m bridge deal to something more like $8.5m x 8... or $8m x 7... $7.5m x 6... $7m x 5. Those seem a bit more realistic 'hometown discounts' given the comparables.

Nik

Quote from: mr grieves on July 12, 2018, 07:27:37 PM
I think it's probably true that Marner's number will be lower than we might expect... but I still think his peers' contracts mean we should adjust what constitutes 'pleasantly surprising' from, say, $7m x 8 or $5m bridge deal to something more like $8.5m x 8... or $8m x 7... $7.5m x 6... $7m x 5. Those seem a bit more realistic 'hometown discounts' given the comparables.

Well, alright, but let's look at the Hall contract for instance. Same age, really comparable goals per game, signed after year 2...with some differences. Hall was a #1 pick, was more of a goal scorer and probably less sheltered than Marner but Marner was healthy both years, contributed to a winning team and is coming off a good playoffs.

Hall got 7 years at 10% of the cap. So the equivalent for Marner would be 7 years and roughly 56 million or so or 8 million per. However, as I've argued elsewhere, Hall signed when RFA's seemed to be using their leverage a little less than they do now so that may be on the low side. But there's also no hometown discount there(or a "Look at this great team we have, don't you want to be cap friendly?" discount)

But, like I just said, Marner strikes me as the guy who's maybe most likely to sign for slightly below his best comps. If we figure the range on his deal is somewhere between 7 million(Pastrnak's % roughly) and 9 million(Kane) long term, all I'm saying is that it wouldn't shock me if he came down on the less expensive side of that divide. It wouldn't shock me if he didn't, but you know...just my guess.
I wish to hell I'd never said "Winning isn't everything it's the only thing". What I believe is, if you go out on a football field, or any endeavour in life, and you leave every fibre of what you have on the field, then you've won.
- Vince Lombardi

.

Quote from: Nik the Trik on July 12, 2018, 07:56:31 PM
But, like I just said, Marner strikes me as the guy who's maybe most likely to sign for slightly below his best comps. If we figure the range on his deal is somewhere between 7 million(Pastrnak's % roughly) and 9 million(Kane) long term, all I'm saying is that it wouldn't shock me if he came down on the less expensive side of that divide. It wouldn't shock me if he didn't, but you know...just my guess.

It's an interesting situation, because the first guy that signs pretty much defines the expectation for the other two, or at least, the spread.. so perhaps that's the dubas strategy for now.. instead of forcing the issue, wait for one guy to want it over with to focus on the upcoming season, and then the other two deals close quickly.

Rob

Quote from: Frycer14 on July 13, 2018, 03:02:19 PM
Quote from: Nik the Trik on July 12, 2018, 07:56:31 PM
But, like I just said, Marner strikes me as the guy who's maybe most likely to sign for slightly below his best comps. If we figure the range on his deal is somewhere between 7 million(Pastrnak's % roughly) and 9 million(Kane) long term, all I'm saying is that it wouldn't shock me if he came down on the less expensive side of that divide. It wouldn't shock me if he didn't, but you know...just my guess.

It's an interesting situation, because the first guy that signs pretty much defines the expectation for the other two, or at least, the spread.. so perhaps that's the dubas strategy for now.. instead of forcing the issue, wait for one guy to want it over with to focus on the upcoming season, and then the other two deals close quickly.

Except, Nylander needs a contract before the season starts, Mitch and Auston could wait it out another year. 

Zee

Today is July 16th.  I predict Wee Willy Nylander will be signed by July 31 at the latest.

Kaberle15

Quote from: Zee on July 16, 2018, 12:03:54 PM
Today is July 16th.  I predict Wee Willy Nylander will be signed by July 31 at the latest.
To a Bridge deal (2-3 years) until they have some cap relief or to an 8 year extension ?

I think that one key thing that might work very well in favor of the Leafs and the so called hometown discount is that they can sign contracts structured as the Tavares one, low on salary, huge on SB. That way they are covered if a lockout happen.

they do have 14,741,667.00 in cap space (as of today) + 5.3 mi in the Horton's deal.

I don't think that is enough to lock all 3 for 8 years this summer. Someone is getting a bridge deal, and i do think it is Nylander.

Go Leafs Go!!!

Frank E

Quote from: Kaberle15 on July 23, 2018, 11:51:04 AM
Quote from: Zee on July 16, 2018, 12:03:54 PM
Today is July 16th.  I predict Wee Willy Nylander will be signed by July 31 at the latest.
To a Bridge deal (2-3 years) until they have some cap relief or to an 8 year extension ?

I think that one key thing that might work very well in favor of the Leafs and the so called hometown discount is that they can sign contracts structured as the Tavares one, low on salary, huge on SB. That way they are covered if a lockout happen.

they do have 14,741,667.00 in cap space (as of today) + 5.3 mi in the Horton's deal.

I don't think that is enough to lock all 3 for 8 years this summer. Someone is getting a bridge deal, and i do think it is Nylander.

Marner and Matthews have deals for this year, and that don't expire until next summer.  They can sign new deals today, but they won't take effect until next year, and associated cap hits aren't relevant until the season they take effect.