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The Special Teams

Started by Peter D., October 25, 2011, 10:33:14 AM

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Michael

mirtleJames Mirtle
"Only one team in the NHL has averaged less than one shot per power play – the Toronto Maple Leafs."

Sarge

Glass half full: We're totally awesome 5 on 5.

Michael

Quote from: Floyd on November 08, 2011, 04:06:01 PM
Glass half full: We're totally awesome 5 on 5.

Stop taking penalties and decline all PP's!!

RedLeaf

Quote from: Fanatic on November 08, 2011, 04:09:03 PM
Quote from: Floyd on November 08, 2011, 04:06:01 PM
Glass half full: We're totally awesome 5 on 5.

Stop taking penalties and decline all PP's!!

Or put out the PK unit on the power play. This way we at least limit shorties :)
"The saddest aspect of life right now is that science gathers knowledge faster than society gathers wisdom.." --Isaac Asimov.

Potvin29

Quote from: Scot4bz on November 08, 2011, 09:31:46 AM
We have no right to refer to them as special teams - unless it's used in the "short school bus" context.

An original classic!

cw

link
Special-teams play, a current hot-button issue with the Leafs, is under renovation with the St. Louis Blues.

Witness new coach Ken Hitchcock's answer when asked, in his opening press conference, how long it will take to fix the club's 30th-ranked power play: "One practice," he said.

The Blues played their first game under Hitchcock Tuesday and downed Chicago 3-0. The special-teams tally showed a goal on two chances — by Chris Stewart, who hadn't scored at all in 11 games.

What Hitchcock did was usher in a 1-3-1 system and discard the more common approach: two defenceman on the point, a forward off the half boards and two more players down low (the Leafs' current model).


:o

The heat is on, Ronny!  :)

Corn Flake

Kenny can fix special teams, but he will alienate the entire team by March. 

Six of one.....?


But yes.. come on Ron!

Significantly Insignificant

Quote from: Potvin29 on November 08, 2011, 06:19:54 AM
Quote from: drummond on November 03, 2011, 12:29:15 PM
http://mapleleafshotstove.com/2011/11/03/the-real-penalty-killing-problems/

good read and visual explanation why the Leafs have such problems to kill a penalty

QuoteGreg Cronin did coach the best NCAA penalty kill ever

Did not know that.

Hmmm...makes me think that the only similarity between the NCAA and the NHL is the 'N'.
"We can't change what's done, we can only move on." - Arthur Morgan

Bender

Quote from: Significantly Insignificant on November 09, 2011, 08:44:06 PM
Quote from: Potvin29 on November 08, 2011, 06:19:54 AM
Quote from: drummond on November 03, 2011, 12:29:15 PM
http://mapleleafshotstove.com/2011/11/03/the-real-penalty-killing-problems/

good read and visual explanation why the Leafs have such problems to kill a penalty

QuoteGreg Cronin did coach the best NCAA penalty kill ever

Did not know that.

Hmmm...makes me think that the only similarity between the NCAA and the NHL is the 'N'.

::)

If that's the case then how do coaches break into the NHL? They don't start at the NHL level. Give some credit where it's due. Jeez, a two game losing streak and you'd think everyone in our organization had the aptitude of Reggie Dunlop.
"They say you can judge a man by the company he keeps. So here is the professor's oldest friend, a grotesque, stinking lobster." - Bender

Nik

Quote from: Bender on November 10, 2011, 09:44:02 AM
If that's the case then how do coaches break into the NHL?

Typically? Through the OHL and AHL levels.
I wish to hell I'd never said "Winning isn't everything it's the only thing". What I believe is, if you go out on a football field, or any endeavour in life, and you leave every fibre of what you have on the field, then you've won.
- Vince Lombardi

Significantly Insignificant

Quote from: Bender on November 10, 2011, 09:44:02 AM
Quote from: Significantly Insignificant on November 09, 2011, 08:44:06 PM
Quote from: Potvin29 on November 08, 2011, 06:19:54 AM
Quote from: drummond on November 03, 2011, 12:29:15 PM
http://mapleleafshotstove.com/2011/11/03/the-real-penalty-killing-problems/

good read and visual explanation why the Leafs have such problems to kill a penalty

QuoteGreg Cronin did coach the best NCAA penalty kill ever

Did not know that.

Hmmm...makes me think that the only similarity between the NCAA and the NHL is the 'N'.

::)

If that's the case then how do coaches break into the NHL? They don't start at the NHL level. Give some credit where it's due. Jeez, a two game losing streak and you'd think everyone in our organization had the aptitude of Reggie Dunlop.

If I am going to give credit where credit is due, then I also have to be critical of something that is not working, and the Leafs penalty killing is not working.  That's great about his accomplishment last year in a developmental league.  Doesn't help the Leafs today.
"We can't change what's done, we can only move on." - Arthur Morgan

Bender

Quote from: Significantly Insignificant on November 10, 2011, 09:50:51 AM
Quote from: Bender on November 10, 2011, 09:44:02 AM
Quote from: Significantly Insignificant on November 09, 2011, 08:44:06 PM
Quote from: Potvin29 on November 08, 2011, 06:19:54 AM
Quote from: drummond on November 03, 2011, 12:29:15 PM
http://mapleleafshotstove.com/2011/11/03/the-real-penalty-killing-problems/

good read and visual explanation why the Leafs have such problems to kill a penalty

QuoteGreg Cronin did coach the best NCAA penalty kill ever

Did not know that.

Hmmm...makes me think that the only similarity between the NCAA and the NHL is the 'N'.

::)

If that's the case then how do coaches break into the NHL? They don't start at the NHL level. Give some credit where it's due. Jeez, a two game losing streak and you'd think everyone in our organization had the aptitude of Reggie Dunlop.

If I am going to give credit where credit is due, then I also have to be critical of something that is not working, and the Leafs penalty killing is not working.  That's great about his accomplishment last year in a developmental league.  Doesn't help the Leafs today.

That's all well and good, but it's getting to the point where nobody deserves a chance to succeed. I mean, I get the hate for RW, but for the new assistants? 15 games in? That's just knee-jerk IMO.

Hell, if we bring Eakins up as head coach now he'd be fired by Sunday.
"They say you can judge a man by the company he keeps. So here is the professor's oldest friend, a grotesque, stinking lobster." - Bender

Significantly Insignificant

Quote from: Bender on November 10, 2011, 10:33:39 AM
Quote from: Significantly Insignificant on November 10, 2011, 09:50:51 AM
Quote from: Bender on November 10, 2011, 09:44:02 AM
Quote from: Significantly Insignificant on November 09, 2011, 08:44:06 PM
Quote from: Potvin29 on November 08, 2011, 06:19:54 AM
Quote from: drummond on November 03, 2011, 12:29:15 PM
http://mapleleafshotstove.com/2011/11/03/the-real-penalty-killing-problems/

good read and visual explanation why the Leafs have such problems to kill a penalty

QuoteGreg Cronin did coach the best NCAA penalty kill ever

Did not know that.

Hmmm...makes me think that the only similarity between the NCAA and the NHL is the 'N'.

::)

If that's the case then how do coaches break into the NHL? They don't start at the NHL level. Give some credit where it's due. Jeez, a two game losing streak and you'd think everyone in our organization had the aptitude of Reggie Dunlop.

If I am going to give credit where credit is due, then I also have to be critical of something that is not working, and the Leafs penalty killing is not working.  That's great about his accomplishment last year in a developmental league.  Doesn't help the Leafs today.

That's all well and good, but it's getting to the point where nobody deserves a chance to succeed. I mean, I get the hate for RW, but for the new assistants? 15 games in? That's just knee-jerk IMO.

Hell, if we bring Eakins up as head coach now he'd be fired by Sunday.

I never said that he should be fired.  Absence of praise does not mean that it's a complete vote of non-confidence.  The Leafs PK is the worst in the league at 71%.  I would expect that if someone could construct a history making penalty killing scheme in the NHL, and then that person moved to another team, that the new teams penalty killing scheme would be somewhat successful.  Probably not history making again, but they probably also wouldn't be the worst in the NHL, as the scheme would have some success in stopping powerplay goals from occurring.  However, Greg Cronin moved from the NCAA and is now in the NHL, and it would appear that his input on the penalty killing has not had a positive effect on the Leafs PK.  Therefore, his scheme may work in the NCAA, but not at the highest level.

Maybe he needs to learn how things work at the NHL level, and if he adapts, he can break down powerplays with the best of them.  The question is, do the Leafs have the luxury of allowing him to learn?
"We can't change what's done, we can only move on." - Arthur Morgan

Bender

Quote from: Significantly Insignificant on November 10, 2011, 11:01:23 AM
Quote from: Bender on November 10, 2011, 10:33:39 AM
Quote from: Significantly Insignificant on November 10, 2011, 09:50:51 AM
Quote from: Bender on November 10, 2011, 09:44:02 AM
Quote from: Significantly Insignificant on November 09, 2011, 08:44:06 PM
Quote from: Potvin29 on November 08, 2011, 06:19:54 AM
Quote from: drummond on November 03, 2011, 12:29:15 PM
http://mapleleafshotstove.com/2011/11/03/the-real-penalty-killing-problems/

good read and visual explanation why the Leafs have such problems to kill a penalty

QuoteGreg Cronin did coach the best NCAA penalty kill ever

Did not know that.

Hmmm...makes me think that the only similarity between the NCAA and the NHL is the 'N'.

::)

If that's the case then how do coaches break into the NHL? They don't start at the NHL level. Give some credit where it's due. Jeez, a two game losing streak and you'd think everyone in our organization had the aptitude of Reggie Dunlop.

If I am going to give credit where credit is due, then I also have to be critical of something that is not working, and the Leafs penalty killing is not working.  That's great about his accomplishment last year in a developmental league.  Doesn't help the Leafs today.

That's all well and good, but it's getting to the point where nobody deserves a chance to succeed. I mean, I get the hate for RW, but for the new assistants? 15 games in? That's just knee-jerk IMO.

Hell, if we bring Eakins up as head coach now he'd be fired by Sunday.

I never said that he should be fired.  Absence of praise does not mean that it's a complete vote of non-confidence.  The Leafs PK is the worst in the league at 71%.  I would expect that if someone could construct a history making penalty killing scheme in the NHL, and then that person moved to another team, that the new teams penalty killing scheme would be somewhat successful.  Probably not history making again, but they probably also wouldn't be the worst in the NHL, as the scheme would have some success in stopping powerplay goals from occurring.  However, Greg Cronin moved from the NCAA and is now in the NHL, and it would appear that his input on the penalty killing has not had a positive effect on the Leafs PK.  Therefore, his scheme may work in the NCAA, but not at the highest level.

Maybe he needs to learn how things work at the NHL level, and if he adapts, he can break down powerplays with the best of them.  The question is, do the Leafs have the luxury of allowing him to learn?

"Hmmm...makes me think that the only similarity between the NCAA and the NHL is the 'N'."

If that's not thinly veiled criticism and essentially a vote of non-confidence then I don't know what is.
"They say you can judge a man by the company he keeps. So here is the professor's oldest friend, a grotesque, stinking lobster." - Bender

Significantly Insignificant

Quote from: Bender on November 10, 2011, 11:12:23 AM
Quote from: Significantly Insignificant on November 10, 2011, 11:01:23 AM
Quote from: Bender on November 10, 2011, 10:33:39 AM
Quote from: Significantly Insignificant on November 10, 2011, 09:50:51 AM
Quote from: Bender on November 10, 2011, 09:44:02 AM
Quote from: Significantly Insignificant on November 09, 2011, 08:44:06 PM
Quote from: Potvin29 on November 08, 2011, 06:19:54 AM
Quote from: drummond on November 03, 2011, 12:29:15 PM
http://mapleleafshotstove.com/2011/11/03/the-real-penalty-killing-problems/

good read and visual explanation why the Leafs have such problems to kill a penalty

QuoteGreg Cronin did coach the best NCAA penalty kill ever

Did not know that.

Hmmm...makes me think that the only similarity between the NCAA and the NHL is the 'N'.

::)

If that's the case then how do coaches break into the NHL? They don't start at the NHL level. Give some credit where it's due. Jeez, a two game losing streak and you'd think everyone in our organization had the aptitude of Reggie Dunlop.

If I am going to give credit where credit is due, then I also have to be critical of something that is not working, and the Leafs penalty killing is not working.  That's great about his accomplishment last year in a developmental league.  Doesn't help the Leafs today.

That's all well and good, but it's getting to the point where nobody deserves a chance to succeed. I mean, I get the hate for RW, but for the new assistants? 15 games in? That's just knee-jerk IMO.

Hell, if we bring Eakins up as head coach now he'd be fired by Sunday.

I never said that he should be fired.  Absence of praise does not mean that it's a complete vote of non-confidence.  The Leafs PK is the worst in the league at 71%.  I would expect that if someone could construct a history making penalty killing scheme in the NHL, and then that person moved to another team, that the new teams penalty killing scheme would be somewhat successful.  Probably not history making again, but they probably also wouldn't be the worst in the NHL, as the scheme would have some success in stopping powerplay goals from occurring.  However, Greg Cronin moved from the NCAA and is now in the NHL, and it would appear that his input on the penalty killing has not had a positive effect on the Leafs PK.  Therefore, his scheme may work in the NCAA, but not at the highest level.

Maybe he needs to learn how things work at the NHL level, and if he adapts, he can break down powerplays with the best of them.  The question is, do the Leafs have the luxury of allowing him to learn?

"Hmmm...makes me think that the only similarity between the NCAA and the NHL is the 'N'."

If that's not thinly veiled criticism and essentially a vote of non-confidence then I don't know what is.

Well I have no control over how you read my post.  You can interpret it anyway you like.  It was meant as a way of saying "The leagues are so different in terms of adjustments and skill level that a plan of attack that has a high degree of success in the lower level does not seem to translate in to any form of success at the higher level."  I just kinda of summarized it in, what I thought at least, was a nice little quip.

A similar case can be made with the differences between the NCAA and the NFL.  One of the common differences that I hear is that at the NFL level, you must learn to adjust on almost every single play, where as at the NCAA level, you may be able to get away with a setup for a complete half, or maybe even a whole game.
"We can't change what's done, we can only move on." - Arthur Morgan