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The Special Teams

Started by Peter D., October 25, 2011, 10:33:14 AM

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Sarge

Quote from: Optimus Reimer on November 23, 2011, 04:28:20 PM
Quote from: Floyd on November 23, 2011, 12:32:11 PM
Quote from: L K on November 23, 2011, 12:27:14 PM

Liles isn't as good as Kaberle offensively


I haven't noticed much (or any) of a gap between the two to be honest with you... and again, no disrespect to Kaberle intended.

One difference I notice is Liles is willing to shoot the puck at the net.  If Kaberle had an empty net, chances are he would have passed it to Blake who would have completely missed the empty net.  Or that is how the Leafs seemed to play before.

Oh, don't get me wrong. They're two entirely different players with a lot of different skill sets which is more than notable. For sure. I was just talking in terms of overall offensive production.  Kab's .58 PPG when stacked up against Liles .53 PPG equates to a 25 pt. difference over 500 games which is what, 4 pts over 82 games on average? It's hardly a difference worth mentioning in my mind. Moreover, I think it's safe to say that average will only draw closer from here on out. 

Tigger

I'd like to see some shot on net stats during power plays, can't find them. Career wise Liles shoots .3 shots more per game, not much of a difference to me though I agree his approach seems a bit more dynamic and he seems to be embracing Wilsons 'pass first' move the puck mantra that seemed to be part of the issue with him and Kabs.
"My father was born shortly after the Wright Brothers" Charlie Duke

Optimus Reimer

Quote from: Floyd on November 23, 2011, 04:36:33 PM
Quote from: Optimus Reimer on November 23, 2011, 04:28:20 PM
Quote from: Floyd on November 23, 2011, 12:32:11 PM
Quote from: L K on November 23, 2011, 12:27:14 PM

Liles isn't as good as Kaberle offensively


I haven't noticed much (or any) of a gap between the two to be honest with you... and again, no disrespect to Kaberle intended.

One difference I notice is Liles is willing to shoot the puck at the net.  If Kaberle had an empty net, chances are he would have passed it to Blake who would have completely missed the empty net.  Or that is how the Leafs seemed to play before.

Oh, don't get me wrong. They're two entirely different players with a lot of different skill sets which is more than notable. For sure. I was just talking in terms of overall offensive production.  Kab's .58 PPG when stacked up against Liles .53 PPG equates to a 25 pt. difference over 500 games which is what, 4 pts over 82 games on average? It's hardly a difference worth mentioning in my mind. Moreover, I think it's safe to say that average will only draw closer from here on out.

I wasn't disagreeing with you.  It was more of a sarcastic and unfortunately a realistic remark as to how the Leafs played a few years ago, and the useless players that were in the organization at that time.  Your comment was pretty much bang on. 

cw

TSN SIEGEL:
http://www.tsn.ca/toronto/blogs/jonas_siegel/?id=381180
3. It's as cliché as it gets in hockey, but remains painfully true. If your goaltender is not your best penalty-killer, you're in trouble. The recent rise of the Leafs penalty-kill – 87% over the last ten games – proves that. Jonas Gustavsson and Ben Scrivens have combined to post an .883 save percentage (5 goals on 43 shots) during that 10-game stretch, not quite impenetrable, but drastically better than the .780 save percentage posted by Leaf netminders in the previous twelve games (15 goals on 68 shots).

4. One other interesting note on the penalty kill is the faceoff work of David Steckel. Steckel is 58% on shorthanded draws (71-122), considerably better than the rest of his teammates at 37% (18-49).

Potvin29

Just a comment from Steckel that I thought was enlightening since some posters were under the impression that the coaches either didn't work on the PK or had no idea what they were doing.  Sure, it could just be BS for public consumption, but it's all we've got.

QuoteSteckel adds on the unit's general effectiveness, "Coaches have done a great job pre-scouting. It's not like we don't know what [the opposition is] doing. It's not like we don't know who's on the powerplay and what they're trying to accomplish. They do a great job scouting and telling us what we need to do. It was just up to us as players and obviously it helps when you get better goaltending too. "

Jalili

Quote from: Floyd on November 23, 2011, 12:32:11 PM
Quote from: L K on November 23, 2011, 12:27:14 PM

Liles isn't as good as Kaberle offensively


I haven't noticed much (or any) of a gap between the two to be honest with you... and again, no disrespect to Kaberle intended.

I think Kaberle in his prime was unmistakably better than how Liles is currently playing.

But if we take his decline into account then I would reverse that, and say that Liles is clearly better than Kaberle as of right now.

CarltonTheBear

Quote from: Floyd on November 23, 2011, 12:32:11 PM
Quote from: L K on November 23, 2011, 12:27:14 PM

Liles isn't as good as Kaberle offensively


I haven't noticed much (or any) of a gap between the two to be honest with you... and again, no disrespect to Kaberle intended. 

This isn't a comment on his play offensively, but I've noticed that Liles is much more physical then he was advertised to be. I've seen him throw his fair share of pretty decent hits. While I love Kaberle to death, that part of his game was absolutely non-existent.

cw

#112
TSN SIEGEL:
LEAFS PENALTY KILL FINALLY TRENDING UPWARD
http://www.tsn.ca/toronto/blogs/jonas_siegel/?id=381212

Potvin29 quoted from the above article. It's a good one on the subject.

Off topic Statement of the obvious:
Jonas Siegel is a good hockey reporter.

I'd quickly admit that this article is not going to garner attention as some major media scoop deserving of Elmer Ferguson Award HHoF attention. It's just a solid, straightforward sports article about a particular aspect of the team.

It features:
- a look at a very key/most important issue for this club; it's weakest link: penalty killing
- from prior articles by Jonas, he's been following this, thinking about it and obviously done his homework with stats, previous discussions & interviews and from watching the games (which I wonder from their reporting if all Leafs media really do)
- it's full of real quality quotes from players and personnel - not the latest rumour or tabloid conjecture he heard whispered in a toilet
- from those quotes, we gain some insight to what has gone on from the start of the season to the present from the key players and the coach
- it touches on faceoffs, personnel, coaching, goaltending, etc - all the key components of the PK
- it's balanced perspective in that he doesn't pretend the problem is all solved nor that it's the end of the world because it's been a problem
- it's fair in that the folks responsible for the problem got their positions fairly represented
- there's no attempt to make his opinion or himself the most important aspect of the article

It's all about delivering good quality information about the team to the fans. That objective would seem obvious but too often over the past decade or so, has fallen short in my opinion. The article is an example of his body of work that has evolved and improved from his days at AM640.

Credit where credit is due. I appreciate not having to crawl through media BS when I read or hear what this guy reports.

Nik

Quote from: Floyd on November 23, 2011, 04:36:33 PM
For sure. I was just talking in terms of overall offensive production.  Kab's .58 PPG when stacked up against Liles .53 PPG equates to a 25 pt. difference over 500 games which is what, 4 pts over 82 games on average? It's hardly a difference worth mentioning in my mind.

I think it's more than just a little misleading to not mention that Kaberle played six full seasons in the lower scoring pre-lockout years to Liles' one if you're going to base a lot on career PPG numbers.

Post-lockout the only year Liles has outscored Kaberle was the year Kaberle got hurt, played in 58 games and Liles was only able to outscore him by 7 points.

Liles' career high in points is 49, a total Kaberle met or exceeded four times. Kaberle's single season high was around 40% higher than Liles'. Kaberle is only two years older but has roughly twice the career points that Liles does.

The thing about Kaberle is that he was a very specialized player. Post-McCabe and Sundin he hasn't really been in a situation that made the most of his talents. The edge Liles has on him, and it's really the only one as I think Kabs was better offensively and defensively, is that he's more versatile which has let him fit in better to what this team is trying to do on the PP.
I wish to hell I'd never said "Winning isn't everything it's the only thing". What I believe is, if you go out on a football field, or any endeavour in life, and you leave every fibre of what you have on the field, then you've won.
- Vince Lombardi

Michael

The PK seems to be turned around - 4 for 4 tonight.

PP was 1 for 4 tonight and is 9 for the last 19 chances.

Nice changes.

Deebo

Quote from: Fanatic on November 25, 2011, 11:43:44 PM
The PK seems to be turned around - 4 for 4 tonight.

PP was 1 for 4 tonight and is 9 for the last 19 chances.

Nice changes.

I think it was an issue of new coaches teaching a new system.

We saw them try the drop pass to the trailer with speed to get the zone and it wasn't working at the begining of the year. Now we see it work quite often.

Tigger

Leaf PP% is second in the league!
"My father was born shortly after the Wright Brothers" Charlie Duke