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Idiocracy

Started by Highlander, February 29, 2016, 12:00:21 PM

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Hobbes

Considering the technical challenges nobody had ever had to contend with before, the DNC was pretty remarkable and made for some very interesting watching. Much better than the typical canned speeches where it's 80% short-on-content one-liners intended to invoke rousing applause rather than lay out policy or actually deliver an intelligent message. It will be interesting to compare and contrast with the coming week's RNC.
It's not denial...I'm just very selective about the reality I accept.

herman

https://twitter.com/crimethinc/status/1298787401792446466
Just in case you're confused about where populist nationalistic demagoguery eventually leads
#27 #TeamFasstholes

Bates

Quote from: herman on August 27, 2020, 01:07:12 PM
https://twitter.com/crimethinc/status/1298787401792446466
Just in case you're confused about where populist nationalistic demagoguery eventually leads

I'm not on the Right or Republucan side but thinking its as simple as this is where X leads might have someone suggest Socialist policy leads to Venezuela.  Its best to just consider that because someone does not share your thoughts or political beliefs it does not make them them the devil.

Nik

Quote from: Bates on August 27, 2020, 02:03:40 PM
I'm not on the Right or Republucan side but thinking its as simple as this is where X leads might have someone suggest Socialist policy leads to Venezuela. 

That analogy doesn't work because there are dozens and dozens of examples of states adopting socialist policies without becoming Venezuela whereas there aren't large scale examples of countries adopting violent nationalist dogma and it not leading to violence and hatred. You actually have to establish a causality before saying one thing leads to another and I think that's been done with nationalism/populism and fascism.

Again, this isn't a left/right thing. This isn't a dispute about marginal tax rate. I'm not so sure why you seem intent on tying Conservatism to this sort of violent rhetoric when a bunch of left-wing people are saying that Conservatism hasn't always and doesn't have to be that.
I wish to hell I'd never said "Winning isn't everything it's the only thing". What I believe is, if you go out on a football field, or any endeavour in life, and you leave every fibre of what you have on the field, then you've won.
- Vince Lombardi

Bates

Quote from: Nik on August 27, 2020, 02:26:04 PM
Quote from: Bates on August 27, 2020, 02:03:40 PM
I'm not on the Right or Republucan side but thinking its as simple as this is where X leads might have someone suggest Socialist policy leads to Venezuela. 

That analogy doesn't work because there are dozens and dozens of examples of states adopting socialist policies without becoming Venezuela whereas there aren't large scale examples of countries adopting violent nationalist dogma and it not leading to violence and hatred. You actually have to establish a causality before saying one thing leads to another and I think that's been done with nationalism/populism and fascism.

Again, this isn't a left/right thing. This isn't a dispute about marginal tax rate. I'm not so sure why you seem intent on tying Conservatism to this sort of violent rhetoric when a bunch of left-wing people are saying that Conservatism hasn't always and doesn't have to be that.

I don't recall reading "violent nationalist dogma" in the post I replied to? The vast majority of people on the Right in the US do not believe in those things.

Nik

Quote from: Bates on August 27, 2020, 02:50:02 PM
I don't recall reading "violent nationalist dogma" in the post I replied to?

It was literally chock full of pictures of people holding assault weapons, some of which were used against their fellow citizens in a double murder and how those people are being celebrated by the mainstream of the Republican party.
I wish to hell I'd never said "Winning isn't everything it's the only thing". What I believe is, if you go out on a football field, or any endeavour in life, and you leave every fibre of what you have on the field, then you've won.
- Vince Lombardi

Bates

Quote from: Nik on August 27, 2020, 03:04:51 PM
Quote from: Bates on August 27, 2020, 02:50:02 PM
I don't recall reading "violent nationalist dogma" in the post I replied to?

It was literally chock full of pictures of people holding assault weapons, some of which were used against their fellow citizens in a double murder and how those people are being celebrated by the mainstream of the Republican party.

I wrote in response to Herman's words questioning them alone.

Nik

Quote from: Bates on August 27, 2020, 03:07:12 PM
I wrote in response to Herman's words questioning them alone.

And Herman's words were in the context of what he was quoting.
I wish to hell I'd never said "Winning isn't everything it's the only thing". What I believe is, if you go out on a football field, or any endeavour in life, and you leave every fibre of what you have on the field, then you've won.
- Vince Lombardi

Bates

Quote from: Nik on August 27, 2020, 03:08:34 PM
Quote from: Bates on August 27, 2020, 03:07:12 PM
I wrote in response to Herman's words questioning them alone.

And Herman's words were in the context of what he was quoting.

And making a huge generalization that just isn't true whole helping nothing.



Nik

Quote from: Bates on August 27, 2020, 03:21:29 PM
And making a huge generalization that just isn't true whole helping nothing.

It wasn't a generalization. It was a specific statement about things that are actually happening right now as evidenced by what he quoted.
I wish to hell I'd never said "Winning isn't everything it's the only thing". What I believe is, if you go out on a football field, or any endeavour in life, and you leave every fibre of what you have on the field, then you've won.
- Vince Lombardi

herman

#2337
Nik's got the long and short of it. I'm not sure what you're arguing for Bates. That it's false there's correlation and/or causation tying nationalistic populism and demagoguery with a lot of not good stuff?
#27 #TeamFasstholes

Bender

Quote from: herman on August 27, 2020, 04:09:57 PM
Nik's got the long and short of it. I'm not sure what you're arguing for Bates. That it's false there's correlation and/or causation tying nationalistic populism and demagoguery with a lot of not good stuff?

I mean honestly, how hard is it think: maybe true conservatism is not the same as populist, nationalist and racial violence? The Germans thought they were conservative in 1933 until little incremental notches moved things up. There are so many platitudes I could go with here, but are we really as dumb as frogs who don't know to jump out of the water once it starts getting too hot? On second thought, considering the realities of climate change, maybe we are.
"They say you can judge a man by the company he keeps. So here is the professor's oldest friend, a grotesque, stinking lobster." - Bender

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