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Line-up changes

Started by slapshot, October 09, 2011, 06:44:49 PM

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Zid

#435
Quote from: princedpw on November 08, 2011, 12:59:23 PM
Quote from: Mikhail Bloodnovsky on November 08, 2011, 12:28:48 PM
Quote from: Floyd on November 08, 2011, 12:18:16 PM
Quote from: Fanatic on November 08, 2011, 12:14:26 PM

Oh come on! The guy is soft.

... Or unlucky. Or Both... I really don't know. All I know is its really, really aggravating.

Man, Burke's free agent signings have so far been not working out at all:

Bauchemin - awful
Komisarek - awful
Armstrong - effective when in the line up which is rare these days
Conolly - Mr.Glass
Gustovsson - Toskala stats don't lie
Bozak - totally invisible when not on the first line

Only MaCarthur seems to have worked out.

Burke seems to have more luck on trades.

Let me amend one of the above for you:

Signing Beauchemin -- awesome.  This signing was turned in to Lupul and Gardiner. 

Signing a few free agents and having some of them duds and some of them turn in to assets that could be traded to other teams for younger up-and-coming assets is a great way to slowly revitalize a franchise that was thoroughly devoid of talent at all levels.

Did Burke sign Beuchamin knowing well in advance he will get Lupul and Gardiner 2 years later? If not, then the signing was a fail. Same with Lebda. If we trade Komisarek next year for some young D man doesn't mean Komisarek's stay here was a success. Remember that Komisarek's and Beuchamin's abysmal play was one of the reasons why Leafs finished 29th in the league and handed the Bruins 2nd overall pick.

Zee

Quote from: Mikhail Bloodnovsky on November 08, 2011, 01:37:43 PM
Quote from: princedpw on November 08, 2011, 12:59:23 PM
Quote from: Mikhail Bloodnovsky on November 08, 2011, 12:28:48 PM
Quote from: Floyd on November 08, 2011, 12:18:16 PM
Quote from: Fanatic on November 08, 2011, 12:14:26 PM

Oh come on! The guy is soft.

... Or unlucky. Or Both... I really don't know. All I know is its really, really aggravating.

Man, Burke's free agent signings have so far been not working out at all:

Bauchemin - awful
Komisarek - awful
Armstrong - effective when in the line up which is rare these days
Conolly - Mr.Glass
Gustovsson - Toskala stats don't lie
Bozak - totally invisible when not on the first line

Only MaCarthur seems to have worked out.

Burke seems to have more luck on trades.

Let me amend one of the above for you:

Signing Beauchemin -- awesome.  This signing was turned in to Lupul and Gardiner. 

Signing a few free agents and having some of them duds and some of them turn in to assets that could be traded to other teams for younger up-and-coming assets is a great way to slowly revitalize a franchise that was thoroughly devoid of talent at all levels.

Did Burke sign Beuchamin knowing well in advance he will get Lupul and Gardiner 2 years later? If not that that signing was a fail. If we trade Komisarek next year for some young D man doesnt mean Komisareks stay here was a success.

Still, it says a lot about Burke that he's willing to move his mistakes to make it right.  When Beauchemin and Komisarek were first signed I thought it was a great move, two veteran d-men with some past success would bring stability to the Leafs D.  I think a lot of fans believed that.  It didn't work out that way, but Burke turned the Beauchemin mistake into a positive acquiring Lupul and Gardiner for him.

There are some GMs who wouldn't quickly abandon a player they recently signed as a UFA or it might admit a mistake on their part.  Burke has no such hang ups, if he makes a mistake he'll try and fix it.

The Versteeg deal is another example of this.   Burke traded him the same year that we got him since he wasn't working out as we had hoped.

Zid

Quote from: Zee on November 08, 2011, 01:40:53 PM
Quote from: Mikhail Bloodnovsky on November 08, 2011, 01:37:43 PM
Quote from: princedpw on November 08, 2011, 12:59:23 PM
Quote from: Mikhail Bloodnovsky on November 08, 2011, 12:28:48 PM
Quote from: Floyd on November 08, 2011, 12:18:16 PM
Quote from: Fanatic on November 08, 2011, 12:14:26 PM

Oh come on! The guy is soft.

... Or unlucky. Or Both... I really don't know. All I know is its really, really aggravating.

Man, Burke's free agent signings have so far been not working out at all:

Bauchemin - awful
Komisarek - awful
Armstrong - effective when in the line up which is rare these days
Conolly - Mr.Glass
Gustovsson - Toskala stats don't lie
Bozak - totally invisible when not on the first line

Only MaCarthur seems to have worked out.

Burke seems to have more luck on trades.

Let me amend one of the above for you:

Signing Beauchemin -- awesome.  This signing was turned in to Lupul and Gardiner. 

Signing a few free agents and having some of them duds and some of them turn in to assets that could be traded to other teams for younger up-and-coming assets is a great way to slowly revitalize a franchise that was thoroughly devoid of talent at all levels.

Did Burke sign Beuchamin knowing well in advance he will get Lupul and Gardiner 2 years later? If not that that signing was a fail. If we trade Komisarek next year for some young D man doesnt mean Komisareks stay here was a success.

Still, it says a lot about Burke that he's willing to move his mistakes to make it right.

I'm not questioning Brian Burke's stubborness. I'm just pointing out his free agent signings have been underwhelming to say the least.

Highlander

where can we find the info on Colbourne's injury?
"In the beginners mind there are many possibilities, but in the expert's there are few"
                                           Sunryn Suzuki

Sarge

Quote from: Highlander on November 08, 2011, 01:50:46 PM
where can we find the info on Colbourne's injury?

I doun't know. 

lc9

Quote from: Busta Reims
Except, that's not true - the Leafs had an extra centre playing on the wing in Lombardi. Heck, they still have an extra centre playing on the wing in Dupuis.

Do either of those two strike you as towering centers?  Colborne is big and skilled, he could create some room for Kessel while Connolly is down. 

Why bring up Frattin to watch him not score?

cw

Quote from: Highlander on November 08, 2011, 01:50:46 PM
where can we find the info on Colbourne's injury?

Haven't seen much but I did see this:

http://sports.nationalpost.com/2011/11/08/leafs-connolly-talks-about-his-injury/
(Wilson) said, adding that the reason why AHL leading scorer Joe Colborne was not recalled is because he is currently dealing with a lower-body injury

lc9

Quote from: cw on November 08, 2011, 01:53:58 PM
Quote from: Highlander on November 08, 2011, 01:50:46 PM
where can we find the info on Colbourne's injury?

Haven't seen much but I did see this:

http://sports.nationalpost.com/2011/11/08/leafs-connolly-talks-about-his-injury/
(Wilson) said, adding that the reason why AHL leading scorer Joe Colborne was not recalled is because he is currently dealing with a lower-body injury

Things make sense now.

Corn Flake

Beauchemin only cost cash. Wasn't as terrible as many claimed. Traded for a guy who has turned out to be a really solid 1st line winger, and a stud d-man prospect. How is that losing?

Komisarek.. finally now showing some stable play after a long streak of yuck.  Relative to some of the mistakes other teams have made, he's not exactly the horror story we make him out to be sometimes.

Armstrong.  Yeah health issues but the perfect 3rd line winger and brings a character and leadership to the room that is very difficult to find.

Connolly.  Was a stop gap signing at best and an improvement to the top line. They probably penciled him in for 40 games and I doubt they stupidly assumed he would play 82.  Probably why Bozak is still here.

Gus.  HOW many teams were chasing this guy to sign?  The Leafs at the time had NOTHING in the way of a goalie prospect in the system showing any signs of being able to become even a backup. Worth a shot.

Bozak.  A serviceable NHL player out of nothing. The only "mistake" they made with Bozak was considering him a 1st line centre two years ago after his breakout 2nd half in his rookie season. 

The adage with Bozak and Gus as mentioned by Nonis a few years ago is they hoped to sign 4-5 guys like this and hope that one of them pans out. 

Lebda to me was the one absolutely true bust, but Burke disposed of him quite handily.... crap happens and every move can't be perfect. He's had better luck than a lot of teams out there with free agents.

Sarge

Quote from: Corn Flake on November 08, 2011, 01:55:05 PM
Beauchemin only cost cash. Wasn't as terrible as many claimed. Traded for a guy who has turned out to be a really solid 1st line winger, and a stud d-man prospect. How is that losing?

Komisarek.. finally now showing some stable play after a long streak of yuck.  Relative to some of the mistakes other teams have made, he's not exactly the horror story we make him out to be sometimes.

Armstrong.  Yeah health issues but the perfect 3rd line winger and brings a character and leadership to the room that is very difficult to find.

Connolly.  Was a stop gap signing at best and an improvement to the top line. They probably penciled him in for 40 games and I doubt they stupidly assumed he would play 82.  Probably why Bozak is still here.

Gus.  HOW many teams were chasing this guy to sign?  The Leafs at the time had NOTHING in the way of a goalie prospect in the system showing any signs of being able to become even a backup. Worth a shot.

Bozak.  A serviceable NHL player out of nothing. The only "mistake" they made with Bozak was considering him a 1st line centre two years ago after his breakout 2nd half in his rookie season. 

The adage with Bozak and Gus as mentioned by Nonis a few years ago is they hoped to sign 4-5 guys like this and hope that one of them pans out. 

Lebda to me was the one absolutely true bust, but Burke disposed of him quite handily.... crap happens and every move can't be perfect. He's had better luck than a lot of teams out there with free agents.

Mostly singles, possibly a pop-out and a double in there somewhere. I understand the frustration that none have been homers.

Bullfrog

Quote from: Fanatic on November 08, 2011, 12:14:26 PM
Quote from: Busta Reims on November 08, 2011, 12:03:27 PM
Quote from: Fanatic on November 08, 2011, 11:58:49 AM
jonasTSN1050Jonas Siegel
Connolly said he was cross-checked early in Boston. Managed to tough it out.

So he managed to tough it out then but now he is out 10 - 14 days? He may just be the softest player I've ever heard of.

Or, you know, maybe once the team doctors had to chance to take a real good look at what the damage was, they decided to shut him down for that time.

Oh come on! The guy is soft.

Have you ever been injured while playing sports before? I badly pulled my hamstring while sparring in a Tae Kwon Do tournament. I immediately knew I'd have trouble walking the next day (and I was right as I was in pain for weeks afterward.) Other than a loose feeling in my leg, I was able to keep competing in that match and another after that because I was so warmed up and full of adrenalin.

Point being, it's often easy for a player to play through a non-debilitating injury that later prevents them from participating.

Michael

Quote from: Bullfrog on November 08, 2011, 02:07:48 PM
Quote from: Fanatic on November 08, 2011, 12:14:26 PM
Quote from: Busta Reims on November 08, 2011, 12:03:27 PM
Quote from: Fanatic on November 08, 2011, 11:58:49 AM
jonasTSN1050Jonas Siegel
Connolly said he was cross-checked early in Boston. Managed to tough it out.

So he managed to tough it out then but now he is out 10 - 14 days? He may just be the softest player I've ever heard of.

Or, you know, maybe once the team doctors had to chance to take a real good look at what the damage was, they decided to shut him down for that time.

Oh come on! The guy is soft.

Have you ever been injured while playing sports before? I badly pulled my hamstring while sparring in a Tae Kwon Do tournament. I immediately knew I'd have trouble walking the next day (and I was right as I was in pain for weeks afterward.) Other than a loose feeling in my leg, I was able to keep competing in that match and another after that because I was so warmed up and full of adrenalin.

Point being, it's often easy for a player to play through a non-debilitating injury that later prevents them from participating.

If I put it another way would that help?

Connolly gets hurt a lot. He is on the injured reserve a lot. Far more than most players. Now, you can believe that he is clumsy or that he is just a real unlucky guy, but others like myself, will choose to believe that he is soft. That means that he is fragile and/or his pain threshold is low.

Bullfrog

I'm not denying he's injury-prone, but more replying to your confusion as to how he's tough enough to play through the injury but then get placed on IR.

cw

Quote from: lc9 on November 08, 2011, 01:53:02 PM
Quote from: Busta Reims
Except, that's not true - the Leafs had an extra centre playing on the wing in Lombardi. Heck, they still have an extra centre playing on the wing in Dupuis.

Do either of those two strike you as towering centers?  Colborne is big and skilled, he could create some room for Kessel while Connolly is down. 

Why bring up Frattin to watch him not score?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9OJ9H9qBFFM

As I mentioned before, he might have been snake bit with all the posts he hit. He scored two for the Marlies in three games. To score 36 goals in the NCAA last year is not an indication he cannot score.

It's kind of odd to me. The Leafs are building with a young group. And with that, it seems we expect some of them to be 20 goal/year scorers in their first few weeks at the pro level.

I'd preach a little patience with this guy. He looks decent to me in that his two way game is darn good for so few games in the pros and he is getting chances.

We heard this about Grabbo's line some earlier this year. Then Grabbo started to contribute. Then it was MacArthur. In the Boston game, Kulemin had a number of chances. Sorry they didn't all go in but when a guy continually gets chances, as Frattin has, often, their scoring eventually comes around.

I'm not ready to bury the guy after 11 NHL games. And in my opinion, he's a more complete and better hockey player than Joe Colborne is right now.

Corn Flake

Quote from: Floyd on November 08, 2011, 02:05:00 PM
Quote from: Corn Flake on November 08, 2011, 01:55:05 PM
Beauchemin only cost cash. Wasn't as terrible as many claimed. Traded for a guy who has turned out to be a really solid 1st line winger, and a stud d-man prospect. How is that losing?

Komisarek.. finally now showing some stable play after a long streak of yuck.  Relative to some of the mistakes other teams have made, he's not exactly the horror story we make him out to be sometimes.

Armstrong.  Yeah health issues but the perfect 3rd line winger and brings a character and leadership to the room that is very difficult to find.

Connolly.  Was a stop gap signing at best and an improvement to the top line. They probably penciled him in for 40 games and I doubt they stupidly assumed he would play 82.  Probably why Bozak is still here.

Gus.  HOW many teams were chasing this guy to sign?  The Leafs at the time had NOTHING in the way of a goalie prospect in the system showing any signs of being able to become even a backup. Worth a shot.

Bozak.  A serviceable NHL player out of nothing. The only "mistake" they made with Bozak was considering him a 1st line centre two years ago after his breakout 2nd half in his rookie season. 

The adage with Bozak and Gus as mentioned by Nonis a few years ago is they hoped to sign 4-5 guys like this and hope that one of them pans out. 

Lebda to me was the one absolutely true bust, but Burke disposed of him quite handily.... crap happens and every move can't be perfect. He's had better luck than a lot of teams out there with free agents.

Mostly singles, possibly a pop-out and a double in there somewhere. I understand the frustration that none have been homers.

But what constitutes a home run in UFA signings these days? Has there been one recently? There are far far more strikeouts than home runs for sure.

MacArthur might be the closest thing to one.