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I don't care.

Started by KGB, March 11, 2012, 01:01:35 PM

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hockeyfan1

Quote from: Champ Kind on March 30, 2012, 09:14:11 AM
Quote from: Zee on March 20, 2012, 01:47:02 PM
Quote from: Tigger on March 20, 2012, 01:45:19 PM
Quote from: Zee on March 20, 2012, 01:36:23 PM
Someone cheer me up.

You're still alive and you're not alone?

I mean about the Leafs.  ;D

If it's any consolation, I really believe the team is not nearly as aweful as they're showing right now.  They're a young team that has had their confidence shredded.  They, obviously, do not have the leadership in the room to pull them through the tough spots.  And they don't have the drive or heart to will themselves to win during times of adversity.

The good news is that these attributes can be added to the team and defienciecies can be addressed.  Goatending, first and foremost, is an issue.  This can be fixed: sign Josh Harding.  Veteran presence, as Corn Flake has repeatedly said, is another key missign ingredient.  Sign Shane Doan and another battle-tested vet.

This was a good team until February.  That's a fairly substantial period, one that I feel fairly confident drawing some conclusions from.  Maybe Sarge is right, maybe the dressing room turned on itself, maybe the coaching staff can't relate, etc.  Something must have happened for a collapse of this magnitude to happen.  My glass half-full take on it is that it can and will be fixed.




If the team lacked a solid veteran or two to 'calm down and lead the youngsters,  would Burke, being a knowledgeable and experienced hockey person himself, have not known this from the beginning?


I am of the inclination that, as you say, something other than the above must have taken place in order for a team to have a complete freefall.  What we do not know, but, one thing's for sure, that if the Leafs had had those veterans that are so desperately lacking here, I doubt the team would have freefallen the way it did.


Leadership, example, experience, guidance were not prevalent, without the proper set of player characteristics to steer the ship in the right direction, so go speak.

Zee

Quote from: Saint Nik on March 30, 2012, 10:01:18 AM
Quote from: Zee on March 30, 2012, 09:35:04 AM
I don't buy that this era is worse than the 80s.  Sure the Leafs made the playoffs the occasional years in the 80s but 16 out of 21 teams did.  You had to be bottom 5 of the league not to make it. 

But does that really matter in context? In the 80's fans still got to watch playoff hockey and even saw the team even win a couple playoff rounds. There were fun players to watch beyond Clark and Vaive(Salming, Thomas, Damphousse, Courtnall).

So worse from a strictly numbers sense? Maybe not. But it's definitely less fun for a fan.

It's a fair point, I remember being excited to see the Leafs in the playoffs even though the team was really bad.  Ken Wregget had a 12-35-4 record as starting goalie, and the Leafs made the playoffs one season with 52 points.  When a team loses 49 out of 80 games, I can't really say that team was better than this era of the Leafs, despite the fact they made the playoffs. 

bustaheims

To me, the biggest difference was that, in the 80s, there really was no hope. The team wasn't going to get significantly better because Ballard cut spending down to the bare minimum. These days, despite all the doom and gloom, there is, as far as I'm concerned, some hope for the future - ownership is willing to spend the cash to improve scouting, development, management, etc. They may not be making all the right decisions, but, that's still better than not having the opportunity to make those decisions at all.
"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

Nik

Quote from: Zee on March 30, 2012, 12:00:53 PM
When a team loses 49 out of 80 games, I can't really say that team was better than this era of the Leafs, despite the fact they made the playoffs.

But it forgets that in a smaller league talent will be more concentrated so a lousy team from that era could very well have a higher talent level on it than a mediocre team of today.
I wish to hell I'd never said "Winning isn't everything it's the only thing". What I believe is, if you go out on a football field, or any endeavour in life, and you leave every fibre of what you have on the field, then you've won.
- Vince Lombardi

Nik

Quote from: bustaheims on March 30, 2012, 12:23:37 PM
To me, the biggest difference was that, in the 80s, there really was no hope. The team wasn't going to get significantly better because Ballard cut spending down to the bare minimum. These days, despite all the doom and gloom, there is, as far as I'm concerned, some hope for the future - ownership is willing to spend the cash to improve scouting, development, management, etc. They may not be making all the right decisions, but, that's still better than not having the opportunity to make those decisions at all.

Nah. I still give the edge to the 80's then. Now it's about the hope that the team eventually makes the right decisions. As much as we want them to, there's no way to know they ever will.

On the flip side, the hope in the 80's was that Ballard would die which was an inevitability. Whether via old age or one of us with a stake through his heart, that SOB was gonna get got.
I wish to hell I'd never said "Winning isn't everything it's the only thing". What I believe is, if you go out on a football field, or any endeavour in life, and you leave every fibre of what you have on the field, then you've won.
- Vince Lombardi

bustaheims

Quote from: Saint Nik on March 30, 2012, 12:23:56 PM
But it forgets that in a smaller league talent will be more concentrated so a lousy team from that era could very well have a higher talent level on it than a mediocre team of today.

Sure, but the significantly lower levels of Russian and European players in the NHL throughout most of the 80s levels that out quite a bit.
"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

Nik

Quote from: bustaheims on March 30, 2012, 12:26:13 PM
Quote from: Saint Nik on March 30, 2012, 12:23:56 PM
But it forgets that in a smaller league talent will be more concentrated so a lousy team from that era could very well have a higher talent level on it than a mediocre team of today.

I'd buy that more about the 70's but a situation where you're dealing with almost a third fewer teams and you've got a bunch of high level Europeans?

Sure, but the significantly lower levels of Russian and European players in the NHL throughout most of the 80s levels that out quite a bit.
I wish to hell I'd never said "Winning isn't everything it's the only thing". What I believe is, if you go out on a football field, or any endeavour in life, and you leave every fibre of what you have on the field, then you've won.
- Vince Lombardi