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Hypothetical: If the Leafs blow it up...

Started by Peter D., January 16, 2015, 08:46:44 AM

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Peter D.

...who do they pursue to coach this team?

Much has been made about waiting upon Babcock's availability.  And if not him, then maybe a McLellan if fired by San Jose, or Paul MacLean, maybe Pete DeBoer, etc.

In the case of Babcock, unless the Leafs offered him something like a 10-year, $40 million deal to see a true rebuild through from beginning to end, would he really want to come here when the team is years away from contention (not like this current team is any closer)?

So who would be good candidates to set a rebuild in motion by developing players properly?  Would Jeff Blashill from Detroit's minor team fit the bill?  I would have suggested Dallas Eakins had he still been with the Marlies and continued to show success in developing the players.  But that ship has sailed. 

Which way would you pursue it? 

Chev-boyar-sky

Well whoever the coach is, player development and team defense should be tops on the list.

There are plenty of coaches who shouldn't touch this team if they do a rebuild. I would've gone with Hitchcock but he's not going to leave his gig to oversee a rebuild.

RedLeaf

Quote from: Peter D. on January 16, 2015, 08:46:44 AM
...who do they pursue to coach this team?

Much has been made about waiting upon Babcock's availability.  And if not him, then maybe a McLellan if fired by San Jose, or Paul MacLean, maybe Pete DeBoer, etc.

In the case of Babcock, unless the Leafs offered him something like a 10-year, $40 million deal to see a true rebuild through from beginning to end, would he really want to come here when the team is years away from contention (not like this current team is any closer)?

So who would be good candidates to set a rebuild in motion by developing players properly?  Would Jeff Blashill from Detroit's minor team fit the bill?  I would have suggested Dallas Eakins had he still been with the Marlies and continued to show success in developing the players.  But that ship has sailed. 

Which way would you pursue it?

The way this team is playing now, any reputable coach would be wise to stay the hell away. Would Babcock really give up his great situation in Detroit to come to Toronto and risk putting a big blotch on his coaching career?
"The saddest aspect of life right now is that science gathers knowledge faster than society gathers wisdom.." --Isaac Asimov.

bustaheims

If they do just blow things up (which I don't think they will and I'm not convinced they need to), they might as well just stick with Horachek until they're further down the line.
"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate

Quote from: bustaheims on January 16, 2015, 11:32:03 AM
If they do just blow things up (which I don't think they will and I'm not convinced they need to), they might as well just stick with Horachek until they're further down the line.

I agree with your point about Horachek.

Peter D.

Quote from: bustaheims on January 16, 2015, 11:32:03 AM
If they do just blow things up (which I don't think they will and I'm not convinced they need to), they might as well just stick with Horachek until they're further down the line.

You're right.  I did think of that, but failed to mention it.  Especially considering how he did a reasonable job in Florida.

gunnar36

Quote from: bustaheims on January 16, 2015, 11:32:03 AM
If they do just blow things up (which I don't think they will and I'm not convinced they need to), they might as well just stick with Horachek until they're further down the line.

I absolutely agree here.  All this talk about Babcock, but there is no guarantee that he will be able to get any better results out of this team then Horachek or even Carlyle for that matter.  Babcock has been given great teams to coach and has achieved great results with those groups... scouting and GM in Detroit is leaps and bounds ahead of ours.

Knowing our luck we would throw a huge 7 yr contract Babcock's way and it will turn out looking like a Clarkson contract.

Highlander

First off, I don't agree we need a complete rebuild, we need to trade a few players and add one real Centre and one stud defenceman.  They have the goaltending  to do well with Bernier (with Bibeau a year or two away).  Any truly great man wants a challenge, to take risks, this is what makes greatness. Babcock can sit on his laurels in Detroit and fade into history as one of the great coaches of all time, already.  However to reach true legend status, he must take a risk and I believe if he brings the Stanley Cup to Toronto, then he becomes a Scotty Bowman, a Toe Blake, an Al Arbour or even a Punch Imlach.
"In the beginners mind there are many possibilities, but in the expert's there are few"
                                           Sunryn Suzuki

herman

Quote from: gunnar36 on January 16, 2015, 12:13:26 PM
Quote from: bustaheims on January 16, 2015, 11:32:03 AM
If they do just blow things up (which I don't think they will and I'm not convinced they need to), they might as well just stick with Horachek until they're further down the line.

I absolutely agree here.  All this talk about Babcock, but there is no guarantee that he will be able to get any better results out of this team then Horachek or even Carlyle for that matter.  Babcock has been given great teams to coach and has achieved great results with those groups... scouting and GM in Detroit is leaps and bounds ahead of ours.

Knowing our luck we would throw a huge 7 yr contract Babcock's way and it will turn out looking like a Clarkson contract.

If scouting and GM were so good in Detroit, they would've picked some of those late round gems earlier. What they do have is a quality development program.

QuoteFull Q&A Link
Q: It's easy to say you have to have good players, but by staying on top, they're harder to find. Without quality scouting, would you have unearthed draft gems like Henrik Zetterberg (210th overall in 1999) or Pavel Datsyuk (171st in 1998)?

Holland: You can't just live on the first round. We haven't had a top-10 pick since 1991 (Martin Lapointe, 10th overall). Identifying players in scouting and having instincts and having some luck and a philosophy in drafting and building through the draft has been significant, but I also think just as important is player development.

That's where (player development coach) Jiri Fischer has become very important for us. He's the person that for 2-3 years the young players whose rights we own get to know and get some direction and guidance from. Then you go to the American Hockey League and I look at the job that (Grand Rapids coach) Jeff Blashill has done the past couple of years. Last season, from the Olympic break on, we didn't have Pav (Datsyuk), we didn't have Z (Zetterberg) and we were still able to play our way into the playoffs thanks to the way our younger players contributed in the second half of the year when we had adversity with our injuries.

Q: You mentioned having a philosophy and clearly the Red Wings' philosophy is patience. No player will play in Detroit before his time.

Holland: I don't believe you hand anyone a job. Just because you're a good junior that doesn't mean you're going to be a good pro. This is another league. This is another step up, so I think it's important that the young kids understand that it's a competition and that they've got to take someone's job.

For me, it's a respect for how good these players are. To play in the NHL, this is the best 650 players in the world. So to think that some 21, 22-year-old player that you drafted in the second or third round that's had a good junior career, that they're all of a sudden going to really step up and make a statement, I have too much respect for how hard the league is. That's why I think it's important that you put in time playing in the American Hockey League and you learn how to be a pro. And then you come up here.

If we had the first pick in the draft, I probably would put the guy right on the team. Because we haven't had a top-10 pick since 1991, the players that we've drafted, there's a whole different mindset to get them from the draft table to where they help us. We're trying to win in the NHL. I can put a bunch of young players in the NHL, but the standard we've set here is we're a playoff team and we're trying to compete with the best teams in our division, the best teams in our conference and obviously it's been a pretty good run for a long time, but it's getting harder all the time, because we haven't picked that high and these other organizations are starting to evolve.
#27 #TeamFasstholes

Nik


I like how what Holland says is in stark contrast to all of those GMs who say "We think it's really important for a player to get to the NHL before he's ready because, ultimately, we don't really care about developing prospects when we can squeeze an extra win or two out of a season".

Joe Thornton, folks.
I wish to hell I'd never said "Winning isn't everything it's the only thing". What I believe is, if you go out on a football field, or any endeavour in life, and you leave every fibre of what you have on the field, then you've won.
- Vince Lombardi

herman

It's one of the reasons why Edmonton is failing even with so many high picks.
#27 #TeamFasstholes

Nik

Quote from: herman on January 16, 2015, 09:56:40 PM
It's one of the reasons why Edmonton is failing even with so many high picks.

Their stated preference for ruining the development of their players?
I wish to hell I'd never said "Winning isn't everything it's the only thing". What I believe is, if you go out on a football field, or any endeavour in life, and you leave every fibre of what you have on the field, then you've won.
- Vince Lombardi

herman

The Leafs need to surround their young core with (cheap) veterans who can lead by example and still play useful minutes. And not let their first rounders hit the NHL until they've proven their readiness in all situations down in the AHL, or junior.

We've seen the benefit an extra year in the AHL proved to be for Corey Perry, Ryan Getzlaf, et al. (due to lockout). Where would Edmonton be today if they gave Hall, Eberle, and Nugent-Hopkins  a season more to mature? I know they weren't messing up the development on purpose, but that's where a management team has to assert themselves over their fanbase (and ownership perhaps) to curtail rushing players.
#27 #TeamFasstholes

LuncheonMeat

I wonder what influence Mark Hunter has on what happens with the Leafs.  If he sees the draft as strong enough that it's worth cleaning out players for picks, does Shanahan say okay?
"How many people from Ontario play in the National Hockey League? Once we make it safe, they're coming home. Mark my words, they'll be coming."
~ Mike Bacock, in an open letter to Steven Stamkos Drew Doughty John Tavares

Highlander

This season aside, I am really thinking with the new brain thrust of the Leafs, Shanaplan, Hunter, Dubois and the few others that we are going to pick the right players and make the right trades.
This team is not going to continue to tread water or move backwards.
"In the beginners mind there are many possibilities, but in the expert's there are few"
                                           Sunryn Suzuki