Author Topic: Contracts for the Big-3  (Read 11074 times)

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Offline Nik the Trik

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Re: Contracts for the Big-3
« Reply #90 on: August 01, 2018, 11:21:17 AM »
Ya I think that's about it.

Also generally agree with the cap argument you made. Although I personally enjoy spending a few min on cap friendly thinking through the options. But I'd prefer phone app logic puzzles and no cap, to cap puzzles and cap.

Another thing to think about, and this might very well be me spitballing here, is that we tend to think of negotiations as being pretty simple. The team has a AAV and term they want, the player has a AAV and term they want and they hopefully meet somewhere in the middle. For most players, I'd guess it does work that way.

But in a case like Nylander's, where he's certainly got a ton of potential but there are questions about his ceiling and to what extent he's really shown his potential, I wonder if it's not a situation where the Leafs might actually make him several offers. Like, one for 5 or 6 years or another for 7 or 8. Or even all four at different AAVs that represent how much they want to invest in his future and see how Nylander wants to play things. Nylander and his representation then might want to take some time to think over things and how they want to proceed and make a few counter-offers of their own.
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Online Coco-puffs

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Re: Contracts for the Big-3
« Reply #91 on: August 01, 2018, 11:43:37 AM »
The cap puts this pressure on.  Want to have a good team, you have to have a number of players on deals where their value exceeds the cost.  So yes, players can be put in adversarial place with fans if they shoot for the absolute most knowing it can impact the team composition.

I don't think McDavid at 13.25 is him shooting for the absolute most. I actually think it's pretty reasonable given the league's salary structure. Moreover, the difference between McDavid at 13.25 and 12.5 might not make a huge difference to McDavid, it's not like that 750k of cap space is likely to be a massive difference in how the Oilers do either.

At the end of the day though, I wouldn't blame fans for thinking this way at all... its not like McDavid, Matthews, Marner, or Nylander are really going to feel the difference of a couple of million a year.  They will all make over $50M in their careers MINIMUM.  None of us are asking Marner to sign for 2M a season.  We're saying make 6M instead of 8M... so 48M vs 64M on an 8-year deal.  Yeah, I'm not feeling bad about hoping that's how it plays out.  He'll be just fine making approximately 52M for the first 11 years of his career (ie, he'll still be able to make more).

I didn't say I blame fans or you should feel bad, I said it sucks that the cap creates this situation.

Fans can feel however they want about how much a player might miss 16 million dollars(or 8-ish million after taxes/agent costs) but I guess the trade-off may be that the players may feel less inclined to stick around when they don't have to.

I don't disagree with anything you've said, was just pointlessly adding to the conversation.  The CAP is certainly the problem and it definitely has these consequences.

And yes, I hope Marner, Nylander, and Matthews sign for 1-2M less per year than most would peg their contract worth at.  If that means the players are less inclined to stick around when the don't have to (when they hit UFA in 6-8 years) then so be it.  I'd hope the multiple championships we've won in that time can convince them otherwise, but they will have earned the right to become UFA's and choose their path going forward.


Offline Nik the Trik

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Re: Contracts for the Big-3
« Reply #92 on: August 01, 2018, 11:51:02 AM »
And yes, I hope Marner, Nylander, and Matthews sign for 1-2M less per year than most would peg their contract worth at.  If that means the players are less inclined to stick around when the don't have to (when they hit UFA in 6-8 years) then so be it.

Just to clarify, it's not just hoping they take less that I think is the issue. I think it's the bad reactions if they decide not to take less that creates an unfortunate situation. If our relationship with players is that transactional, where in our eyes they become bad people or bad teammates if they want to earn more than we'd like them to then it seems fairly unlikely that you're going to engender deeply warm feelings coming back the other way.
Give a man the reputation of an early riser and he can sleep 'til noon
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Offline azzurri63

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Re: Contracts for the Big-3
« Reply #93 on: August 01, 2018, 01:12:07 PM »
I trust Dubas when he said signing all 3 wouldn't be an issue but man some of the signings lately and rumours on what guys are asking I'm not liking what I'm seeing or hearing. If Dubas talked to the 3 and explained the Tavares signing and somehow convinced them to take a slight discount then all good. But I personally don't see the big 3 signing for less than 25 million. Only thing that keeps it under that is Nylander getting Pasternak numbers which I think is where he should be. If we can get him for around 6 then it's doable. The Eichel and Draisaitl contracts were a huge mistake as I don't think any player deserves those kind of numbers for a second contract unless you are absolutely elite ie McDavid. See what happens.

Online Coco-puffs

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Re: Contracts for the Big-3
« Reply #94 on: August 01, 2018, 01:17:39 PM »
And yes, I hope Marner, Nylander, and Matthews sign for 1-2M less per year than most would peg their contract worth at.  If that means the players are less inclined to stick around when the don't have to (when they hit UFA in 6-8 years) then so be it.

Just to clarify, it's not just hoping they take less that I think is the issue. I think it's the bad reactions if they decide not to take less that creates an unfortunate situation. If our relationship with players is that transactional, where in our eyes they become bad people or bad teammates if they want to earn more than we'd like them to then it seems fairly unlikely that you're going to engender deeply warm feelings coming back the other way.

For me personally, I'm not going to have a bad reaction of these guys get deals near their worth at all.  Even if they get more than that, I'm not going to perceive them as bad people or bad teammates.  Its just going to suck from a competitiveness standpoint when we can't add that other piece that would help bring a championship or we have to trade a good piece because their next contract won't fit.  I won't harbour bad feelings towards the players.  Its gonna be the same feeling you seem to have, which is that the salary cap sucks!

Offline Zee

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Re: Contracts for the Big-3
« Reply #95 on: August 01, 2018, 01:22:46 PM »
No contracts yet, you're dead to me Dubas

Offline Kaberle15

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Re: Contracts for the Big-3
« Reply #96 on: August 06, 2018, 02:55:56 PM »
1 thing that I would like the next CBA to include is either a luxury tax to keep 1-2 stars to max contract (see NBA model)
or the ability to buy cap space, ie 10 Mi over 5 years the team selling gets 50% as money.
50% of the Cap you are buying over time would be very nice to teams in need of money and to teams in need of the cap space. IN the example above, to buy 10mi x 5 years the team pays 5mi x 5 years to the team selling.
A.K.A Gardiner51, Changed back to Kaberle15 now that he is retired.

Offline Zee

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Re: Contracts for the Big-3
« Reply #97 on: August 22, 2018, 10:37:42 AM »
Anyone thinking that the Leafs are trying to sign all 3 long term and want to announce the big 3 at the same time?  It's been so quiet on this front other than the occasional report of "talks are ongoing" that I've heard from Nylander and Matthews's camp.  Probably not realistic that they'd be able to keep all 3 contracts on the down low so as to announce them on the same day, but you never know.

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Re: Contracts for the Big-3
« Reply #98 on: August 22, 2018, 10:41:35 AM »
Anyone thinking that the Leafs are trying to sign all 3 long term and want to announce the big 3 at the same time?  It's been so quiet on this front other than the occasional report of "talks are ongoing" that I've heard from Nylander and Matthews's camp.  Probably not realistic that they'd be able to keep all 3 contracts on the down low so as to announce them on the same day, but you never know.

I think most of us are hoping for this, and I'd bet the Leafs would love to do all 3 deals now and have their financial picture long term figured out, but achieving that is another story. 

Offline Dappleganger

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Re: Contracts for the Big-3
« Reply #99 on: August 22, 2018, 11:03:39 AM »
Anyone think that the Leafs should just say to AM, WN, and MM, here's $24m, divide it amongst yourselves however you see fit.

 ;D

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Re: Contracts for the Big-3
« Reply #100 on: August 22, 2018, 12:24:09 PM »
Anyone think that the Leafs should just say to AM, WN, and MM, here's $24m, divide it amongst yourselves however you see fit.

 ;D

So essentially WN and MM would be saying, AM what do you want?  10? 11? 12?  Ok, we'll split the rest.

Online herman

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Re: Contracts for the Big-3
« Reply #101 on: August 22, 2018, 01:06:06 PM »
Anyone think that the Leafs should just say to AM, WN, and MM, here's $24m, divide it amongst yourselves however you see fit.

 ;D

So essentially WN and MM would be saying, AM what do you want?  10? 11? 12?  Ok, we'll split the rest.

But you’re picking up the tab on all the Capri Sun.

Offline Bullfrog

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Re: Contracts for the Big-3
« Reply #102 on: August 22, 2018, 01:43:59 PM »
Anyone thinking that the Leafs are trying to sign all 3 long term and want to announce the big 3 at the same time?  It's been so quiet on this front other than the occasional report of "talks are ongoing" that I've heard from Nylander and Matthews's camp.  Probably not realistic that they'd be able to keep all 3 contracts on the down low so as to announce them on the same day, but you never know.

I'm not thinking that at all. Sometimes things are just simple: they're taking their time to get the right contract for Nylander and they'll deal with Matthews and Marner during the upcoming season or off-season.

Offline Zee

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Re: Contracts for the Big-3
« Reply #103 on: August 22, 2018, 01:59:09 PM »
Anyone thinking that the Leafs are trying to sign all 3 long term and want to announce the big 3 at the same time?  It's been so quiet on this front other than the occasional report of "talks are ongoing" that I've heard from Nylander and Matthews's camp.  Probably not realistic that they'd be able to keep all 3 contracts on the down low so as to announce them on the same day, but you never know.

I'm not thinking that at all. Sometimes things are just simple: they're taking their time to get the right contract for Nylander and they'll deal with Matthews and Marner during the upcoming season or off-season.

But it's already been reported that Matthews's contract extension talks have begun.  Matthews said it himself.

Offline Nik the Trik

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Re: Contracts for the Big-3
« Reply #104 on: August 22, 2018, 02:31:14 PM »
Anyone thinking that the Leafs are trying to sign all 3 long term and want to announce the big 3 at the same time?  It's been so quiet on this front other than the occasional report of "talks are ongoing" that I've heard from Nylander and Matthews's camp.  Probably not realistic that they'd be able to keep all 3 contracts on the down low so as to announce them on the same day, but you never know.

Not to ask a dumb question but why would the Leafs want that? Or the players?
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Re: Contracts for the Big-3
« Reply #104 on: August 22, 2018, 02:31:14 PM »