Author Topic: Lightning @ Leafs - Feb. 12th, 7:00pm - TSN4, TSN 1050  (Read 2080 times)

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Offline herman

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Re: Lightning @ Leafs - Feb. 12th, 7:00pm - TSN4, TSN 1050
« Reply #15 on: February 12, 2018, 12:40:04 PM »
Just to clarify, he remains on IR until the Leafs doctors have cleared him.  So despite evidence that he's fine (him saying he's fine, playing 3-in-3 over the weekend), he can't just self-clear himself as ready.  They have conveniently pushed off the doctors seeing him by him staying at home today.

Lou: our doctors are BC natives and we felt i best to give them their Family Day off to spend time with their loved ones on this made up holiday.

Offline herman

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Re: Lightning @ Leafs - Feb. 12th, 7:00pm - TSN4, TSN 1050
« Reply #16 on: February 12, 2018, 12:47:58 PM »
You don't think Soshnikov's point per game pace on his conditioning stint coming off an injury, his physical element, strong skating, being skilled on the PK and his booming shot aren't overwhelmingly better than Moore/Komarov?

As for his remaining on IR, I suspect it's only for the 24/48 hours until medical professionals officially clear him on the Leafs end, a time-saving measure for them to try and figure things out.

As you say I think this will be addressed in the next CBA or off-season, waivers was supposed to stop teams stalling guys careers like this.

I actually do think he's better overall than those two veterans, but is he better than who is in his play slot in the designated role? Komarov is utility defenseman, bumping into lines 2 and 3 situationally. Soshnikov is a huge step up offensively, but Komarov wasn't being used for offense anyway. (personally, I would argue that putting the puck into the other net is the best defense, but I'm not the coach here)

If any of the LWs went down with an injury, Sosh would be up before Josh barring injury. I don't think Babcock considers Sosh better than Komarov for what he uses Leo for; he doesn't play centre and Babcock does not consider Komarov as a centre option, so that's why Sosh is still on the outside.

NHL people also have a huge amount of respect/cachet/bias for NHL games played (per Friedman and Marek's podcast, if I recall correctly). If you've played the NHL level for a certain amount of time, you get soooo much benefit of the doubt. It is really something huge that Marner and Kapanen supplanted Komarov/Martin.
« Last Edit: February 12, 2018, 12:49:43 PM by herman »

Offline nutman

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Re: Lightning @ Leafs - Feb. 12th, 7:00pm - TSN4, TSN 1050
« Reply #17 on: February 12, 2018, 12:57:27 PM »
I like this being over the limit thing.  This I think will keep everyone sharp with players capable of jumping in there spot, kicking at there heels, makes for a more determined team.
I look forward to see how they play TB knowing there spots are not a free ride, and could be lost with a bad outing.

Online WhatIfGodWasALeaf

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Re: Lightning @ Leafs - Feb. 12th, 7:00pm - TSN4, TSN 1050
« Reply #18 on: February 12, 2018, 01:04:19 PM »
I think he's better defensively because he's better offensively, Komarov is an absolute black hole when it comes to getting out of his own zone. He's in the sixth percentile league-wide, that is terrible.

I'd need to dig up the numbers, but I'm fairly certain Soshnikov was one of the best PKers on the team last year too.

I hear what you're saying though re veteran getting the benefit and having to overcome Babcock's veteran biases.

It's becoming tougher though to give Babs the benefit of the doubt, we've all been arguing about the bottom of the lineup on both offense and defense for over a year and when he finally listened to the conventional wisdom, the team started to play much better.

I know he's one of the top coaches in the world, but watching Polak wet the bed most nights while guys like Carrick, Borgman, Sosh and Leivo get the shaft is extremely grating.

A lot of people don't put that much weight on fourth lines and third pair decisions, but when they are playing almost 20% of your even strength time, it's a massive issue, much like a backup goalie is a more important position than most give credit.

Online CarltonTheBear

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Re: Lightning @ Leafs - Feb. 12th, 7:00pm - TSN4, TSN 1050
« Reply #19 on: February 12, 2018, 01:12:50 PM »
Just to clarify, he remains on IR until the Leafs doctors have cleared him.  So despite evidence that he's fine (him saying he's fine, playing 3-in-3 over the weekend), he can't just self-clear himself as ready.  They have conveniently pushed off the doctors seeing him by him staying at home today.

I can understand him staying on for one more day, especially since he was basically given today off. But if I'm a rival team and this lasts longer than that I'm causing a fuss about it.

Offline herman

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Re: Lightning @ Leafs - Feb. 12th, 7:00pm - TSN4, TSN 1050
« Reply #20 on: February 12, 2018, 01:22:02 PM »
I think he's better defensively because he's better offensively, Komarov is an absolute black hole when it comes to getting out of his own zone. He's in the sixth percentile league-wide, that is terrible.

I'd need to dig up the numbers, but I'm fairly certain Soshnikov was one of the best PKers on the team last year too.

I hear what you're saying though re veteran getting the benefit and having to overcome Babcock's veteran biases.

It's becoming tougher though to give Babs the benefit of the doubt, we've all been arguing about the bottom of the lineup on both offense and defense for over a year and when he finally listened to the conventional wisdom, the team started to play much better.

I know he's one of the top coaches in the world, but watching Polak wet the bed most nights while guys like Carrick, Borgman, Sosh and Leivo get the shaft is extremely grating.

A lot of people don't put that much weight on fourth lines and third pair decisions, but when they are playing almost 20% of your even strength time, it's a massive issue, much like a backup goalie is a more important position than most give credit.

I hear you. I was advocating for all this last year when Polak was re-signed and griping about Martin, etc. and pulling out Dom's Extra 2% article. Remember when you got mad at me for whining about the Martin deal?  ;D

Funny thing about
Quote
It's becoming tougher though to give Babs the benefit of the doubt, we've all been arguing about the bottom of the lineup on both offense and defense for over a year and when he finally listened to the conventional wisdom, the team started to play much better.
is that Babcock is employing conventional NHL coach wisdom with leaning on the veterans. Earlier in the season, I argued that he knew they weren't great, but they made their plays to the best of their (lesser) abilities. During the December slump, Babcock said something to the effect of, "my wife could tell me what's wrong, but the hard part is figuring out what's right". I took this to mean, "yeah I know Polak is trash, but he's the best option in the system for the role I believe the team needs to succeed".

Honestly, I can also see why Babcock doesn't always feel safe with Carrick, Leivo, Corrado, etc. on the ice. They have definite flaws (otherwise they wouldn't be in this position). There are young players they prioritized insulating and growing on the NHL level (the big 3, Rielly, Zaitsev), and there are young players who are designated subs who are in a contract pinch.

Online Zee

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Re: Lightning @ Leafs - Feb. 12th, 7:00pm - TSN4, TSN 1050
« Reply #21 on: February 12, 2018, 01:27:30 PM »
Just to clarify, he remains on IR until the Leafs doctors have cleared him.  So despite evidence that he's fine (him saying he's fine, playing 3-in-3 over the weekend), he can't just self-clear himself as ready.  They have conveniently pushed off the doctors seeing him by him staying at home today.

I can understand him staying on for one more day, especially since he was basically given today off. But if I'm a rival team and this lasts longer than that I'm causing a fuss about it.

"Maple Leafs announce Soshnikov is going to the Joffrey Lupul conditioning camp"

Online WhatIfGodWasALeaf

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Re: Lightning @ Leafs - Feb. 12th, 7:00pm - TSN4, TSN 1050
« Reply #22 on: February 12, 2018, 01:36:42 PM »
Honestly, I can also see why Babcock doesn't always feel safe with Carrick, Leivo, Corrado, etc. on the ice. They have definite flaws (otherwise they wouldn't be in this position).

They do have flaws, but you could argue that they are net positives when you compare them to a guy like Polak who is also deeply flawed.

Babcock can wax lyrical about the role he wants Polak to play, but to anyone watching that is nonsense, he is a total black hole and his penalty differential is disgraceful too.

A guy like Carrick who might be flawed is still a net positive when compared to a guy like Polak and Carrick won't learn as much being scratched every second game or playing once a week, as he would playing regularly and gaining the experience that Polak has already had the chance to accrue.

I've seen enough of Carrick to think he deserves the 300 games most seem to think it takes NHL dmen to fully adapt to the league. He's a point off his totals from last year despite having only played half the games.

As for me busting your chops about Martin, you have my sincerest of apologies, I have no problem admitting when I'm wrong. I hold your opinion in very high esteem, your systems breakdown, prospect knowledge and tactical savvy make you one of the best posters on here, it also helps that you seem like a nice guy who isn't a snarky a$$hole only interested in being right.

Offline herman

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Re: Lightning @ Leafs - Feb. 12th, 7:00pm - TSN4, TSN 1050
« Reply #23 on: February 12, 2018, 01:56:47 PM »
They do have flaws, but you could argue that they are net positives when you compare them to a guy like Polak who is also deeply flawed.

Babcock can wax lyrical about the role he wants Polak to play, but to anyone watching that is nonsense, he is a total black hole and his penalty differential is disgraceful too.

A guy like Carrick who might be flawed is still a net positive when compared to a guy like Polak and Carrick won't learn as much being scratched every second game or playing once a week, as he would playing regularly and gaining the experience that Polak has already had the chance to accrue.

I've seen enough of Carrick to think he deserves the 300 games most seem to think it takes NHL dmen to fully adapt to the league. He's a point off his totals from last year despite having only played half the games.

Totally agreed on Carrick > Polak. Even Marincin > Polak if we're playing this game.
Polak's flaws don't come into play for Babcock's decision for that roster role because he just wants a big, mean RHD who can PK and sacrifice the body with zeal. To that end, Polak is fine, albeit a black hole in every other aspect of the game. He brings something different to the table than the rest of the D corps and, evolutionarily speaking, the diversity of style is not a bad thing.

As for me busting your chops about Martin, you have my sincerest of apologies, I have no problem admitting when I'm wrong. I hold your opinion in very high esteem, your systems breakdown, prospect knowledge and tactical savvy make you one of the best posters on here, it also helps that you seem like a nice guy who isn't a snarky a$$hole only interested in being right.

Oh thanks! No need to apologize! We already took care of this back when it came up, and I only brought it up to remind you we're on the same page regarding the youth movement. I really enjoy our discussions when we're kind of on the same path but using slightly different gaits and seeing different things. It certainly makes me better at understanding this stuff. I'm sure I'll be wrong about many things to come.

Offline disco

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Re: Lightning @ Leafs - Feb. 12th, 7:00pm - TSN4, TSN 1050
« Reply #24 on: February 12, 2018, 03:22:24 PM »
go leafs go
"I'm here for (6) more years. Then I'm gonna stay for two more because we'll be really good." - Coach Mike Babcock

Offline Highlander

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Re: Lightning @ Leafs - Feb. 12th, 7:00pm - TSN4, TSN 1050
« Reply #25 on: February 12, 2018, 06:05:09 PM »
Honestly, I can also see why Babcock doesn't always feel safe with Carrick, Leivo, Corrado, etc. on the ice. They have definite flaws (otherwise they wouldn't be in this position).

They do have flaws, but you could argue that they are net positives when you compare them to a guy like Polak who is also deeply flawed.

Babcock can wax lyrical about the role he wants Polak to play, but to anyone watching that is nonsense, he is a total black hole and his penalty differential is disgraceful too.

A guy like Carrick who might be flawed is still a net positive when compared to a guy like Polak and Carrick won't learn as much being scratched every second game or playing once a week, as he would playing regularly and gaining the experience that Polak has already had the chance to accrue.

I've seen enough of Carrick to think he deserves the 300 games most seem to think it takes NHL dmen to fully adapt to the league. He's a point off his totals from last year despite having only played half the games.

As for me busting your chops about Martin, you have my sincerest of apologies, I have no problem admitting when I'm wrong. I hold your opinion in very high esteem, your systems breakdown, prospect knowledge and tactical savvy make you one of the best posters on here, it also helps that you seem like a nice guy who isn't a snarky a$$hole only interested in being right.
Herman for President, Snarky A$$hole for Vice President
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                                           Navaho Proverb

Offline Chris

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Re: Lightning @ Leafs - Feb. 12th, 7:00pm - TSN4, TSN 1050
« Reply #26 on: February 12, 2018, 07:07:22 PM »
Really looking forward to seeing how the Leafs handle (or get handled by) Tampa tonight. Big measuring-stick game. Hopefully they put up a better effort than they did against Boston.

Offline Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate

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Re: Lightning @ Leafs - Feb. 12th, 7:00pm - TSN4, TSN 1050
« Reply #27 on: February 12, 2018, 07:10:24 PM »
Who are the play by play guys?  That sounds like Beyak.

Offline disco

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Re: Lightning @ Leafs - Feb. 12th, 7:00pm - TSN4, TSN 1050
« Reply #28 on: February 12, 2018, 07:10:47 PM »
nic cage youtube stream for any who need it. follow his facebook page for the posted link pre-game.
"I'm here for (6) more years. Then I'm gonna stay for two more because we'll be really good." - Coach Mike Babcock

Offline Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate

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Re: Lightning @ Leafs - Feb. 12th, 7:00pm - TSN4, TSN 1050
« Reply #29 on: February 12, 2018, 07:14:15 PM »
nic cage youtube stream for any who need it. follow his facebook page for the posted link pre-game.

Would like it, please, and thanks.

TMLfans.ca

Re: Lightning @ Leafs - Feb. 12th, 7:00pm - TSN4, TSN 1050
« Reply #29 on: February 12, 2018, 07:14:15 PM »