Author Topic: Leivo asks to traded, Sosh being showcased?  (Read 1420 times)

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Offline Chris

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Re: Leivo asks to traded, Sosh being showcased?
« Reply #15 on: February 05, 2018, 04:37:54 PM »

What's JVR going to get signed at? I heard TJ Oshie is a good comparable at $5.75 x 8 years. I feel Oshie is a lot more dynamic.

JVR has one of the best roles in hockey. Go to the net and stay there and pound in the garbage, do nothing else and he's given top PP minutes and great line mates. Couldn't Levio do that? Levio is similar is weight and height. That through the legs shot... has it ever worked?

I like JVR but not at Oshie numbers. I would like him at a $5M x 4 years... so probably not going to happen.

I've been thinking the same thing. Leivo is reasonably big, decent shot, probably faster than JVR and better (more physical) along the boards. Defensively JVR ain't great, can Leivo be any worse? JVR does have really good hands around the net but he doesn't create much on his own.

The Boston game was a bit of a wake up call for how far the Leafs still have to go. I don't really see this team getting past the first round, so why not trade JVR if a good package is available, and finally give Leivo a chance to show if he is an NHL player.

Offline Bullfrog

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Re: Leivo asks to traded, Sosh being showcased?
« Reply #16 on: February 05, 2018, 08:39:26 PM »
JvR is 23rd in total goals and goals/game in the NHL over the last five seasons (including the current one). Leivo is similar in size and can't crack an NHL roster.

Online herman

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Re: Leivo asks to traded, Sosh being showcased?
« Reply #17 on: February 05, 2018, 08:40:31 PM »
JvR is 23rd in total goals and goals/game in the NHL over the last five seasons (including the current one). Leivo is similar in size and can't crack an NHL roster.

On top of size bias, the league also has draft position bias.

Offline bustaheims

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Re: Leivo asks to traded, Sosh being showcased?
« Reply #18 on: February 05, 2018, 08:52:12 PM »
JvR is 23rd in total goals and goals/game in the NHL over the last five seasons (including the current one). Leivo is similar in size and can't crack an NHL roster.

To be fair, we don't have any evidence outside the fact he can't crack a very deep Leafs' roster.
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Offline hockeyfan1

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Re: Leivo asks to traded, Sosh being showcased?
« Reply #19 on: February 06, 2018, 04:58:09 AM »
On the subject of Leivo who's described as a nice person, keeping positive in the face of not playing, and who brings a smile to the rink, he genuinely wishes to remain a Maple Leafs:

Quote
Josh is a player who would stand in front of a train for the Toronto Maple Leafs,” Pulver said in a statement. “Josh was drafted by the Leafs and he wants to be a long-time Leaf. He would love to be in the lineup ?Monday night, and every night thereafter. Having said that, he hasn't been in...


Offline Bullfrog

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Re: Leivo asks to traded, Sosh being showcased?
« Reply #20 on: February 06, 2018, 08:10:24 AM »
JvR is 23rd in total goals and goals/game in the NHL over the last five seasons (including the current one). Leivo is similar in size and can't crack an NHL roster.

To be fair, we don't have any evidence outside the fact he can't crack a very deep Leafs' roster.

Agreed. I really like Leivo and want to see him have a chance. I'm enamoured with guys like him and Holland; guys I know are fringe NHLers/bottom six guys. But, I would definitely rather see them over Martin and other plugs.

Online cabber24

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Re: Leivo asks to traded, Sosh being showcased?
« Reply #21 on: February 06, 2018, 08:58:37 AM »
JvR is 23rd in total goals and goals/game in the NHL over the last five seasons (including the current one). Leivo is similar in size and can't crack an NHL roster.
I just ran the last 5 years and may be 23rd in goals but he's also a -48. He's a one trick pony. We likely can't afford JVR if we want to keep the band together so it is prudent to consider other options and Leivo should be considered since he's already on the roster and we have trade deadline quickly approaching.
« Last Edit: February 06, 2018, 09:09:38 AM by cabber24 »
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Online CarltonTheBear

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Re: Leivo asks to traded, Sosh being showcased?
« Reply #22 on: February 06, 2018, 09:13:37 AM »
I just ran the last 5 years and maybe 23rd in goals but he's also a -48. He's a one trick pony. We likely can't afford JVR if we want to keep the band together so it is prudent to consider other options and Leivo should be considered since he's already on the roster and we have trade deadline quickly approaching.

That's largely because of one bad season in Carlyle's last year when he was a -33. If you look at just the past 3 years under Babcock at 5-on-5 JVR's GF% is 53%, and his goals/60 minutes is 8th in the league.

I myself have been guilty of suggesting that JVR's 5-on-5 play is probably replaceable, but it really isn't. Certainly not by Leivo.

Online cabber24

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Re: Leivo asks to traded, Sosh being showcased?
« Reply #23 on: February 06, 2018, 09:37:29 AM »
I just ran the last 5 years and maybe 23rd in goals but he's also a -48. He's a one trick pony. We likely can't afford JVR if we want to keep the band together so it is prudent to consider other options and Leivo should be considered since he's already on the roster and we have trade deadline quickly approaching.

That's largely because of one bad season in Carlyle's last year when he was a -33. If you look at just the past 3 years under Babcock at 5-on-5 JVR's GF% is 53%, and his goals/60 minutes is 8th in the league.

I myself have been guilty of suggesting that JVR's 5-on-5 play is probably replaceable, but it really isn't. Certainly not by Leivo.
Okay so what's the plan resign him at 5.75 x 8? Can't have your cake and eat it too. Who do you think is coming back out of Komi, Bozak, and JVR if any? Who should replace these guys? Should we not considering dealing these guys at the deadline. No two players are the same but someone has to take the roster spot. I would argue Levio and Soshnikov are first in line.
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Online CarltonTheBear

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Re: Leivo asks to traded, Sosh being showcased?
« Reply #24 on: February 06, 2018, 09:45:19 AM »
Okay so what's the plan resign him at 5.75 x 8? Can't have your cake and eat it too. Who do you think is coming back out of Komi, Bozak, and JVR if any? Who should replace these guys? Should we not considering dealing these guys at the deadline. No two players are the same but someone has to take the roster spot. I would argue Levio and Soshnikov are first in line.

The only point I was making is that JVR is one of the most efficient goal scorers in the league, and he can't be easily replaced by a 24-year old with 54 NHL games under his belt just because he is of similar weight and height.

As for whether or not we should re-sign him at an Oshie-like contract, I honestly don't know if there's a right or wrong answer there.
« Last Edit: February 06, 2018, 09:47:25 AM by CarltonTheBear »

Online WhatIfGodWasALeaf

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Re: Leivo asks to traded, Sosh being showcased?
« Reply #25 on: February 06, 2018, 09:46:15 AM »
I just ran the last 5 years and maybe 23rd in goals but he's also a -48. He's a one trick pony. We likely can't afford JVR if we want to keep the band together so it is prudent to consider other options and Leivo should be considered since he's already on the roster and we have trade deadline quickly approaching.

That's largely because of one bad season in Carlyle's last year when he was a -33. If you look at just the past 3 years under Babcock at 5-on-5 JVR's GF% is 53%, and his goals/60 minutes is 8th in the league.

I myself have been guilty of suggesting that JVR's 5-on-5 play is probably replaceable, but it really isn't. Certainly not by Leivo.

I take your point, but the flip side of that is that he has been heavily sheltered in a third line role.

So can you justify paying him as a top-six winger when you need to play him in a third line role to prevent him being victimized defensively?

I like him a lot and I don't think we have a like for like replacement, but he isn't great defensively, needs to be played on the third line because against quality competition he gets taken advantage of, he isn't a great skater and only scores from within 5 feet of the net.

I think you have to trade him and hope that his replacement from within can be a net positive when you factor in all aspects of the game.

All that being said, he might be the best player in the league around the net on the PP and given that he could age well because those aren't things that are liable to diminish with age.

I just can't justify paying a third liner close to six million or more into his late thirties when the team is swimming in prospects in his position, it's poor asset management.

Kapanen-Matthews-Hyman
Marleau-Kadri-Marner
Johnsson-Nylander-Brown
Soshnikov-Komarov-Levio

That 12 plus whatever trade return you get from JVR and Bozak seems like a smarter move to me.
« Last Edit: February 06, 2018, 09:49:31 AM by WhatIfGodWasALeaf »

Online herman

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Re: Leivo asks to traded, Sosh being showcased?
« Reply #26 on: February 06, 2018, 09:52:17 AM »
Okay so what's the plan resign him at 5.75 x 8? Can't have your cake and eat it too. Who do you think is coming back out of Komi, Bozak, and JVR if any? Who should replace these guys? Should we not considering dealing these guys at the deadline. No two players are the same but someone has to take the roster spot. I would argue Leivo and Soshnikov are first in line.

The plan is the same as it is every day, cabber
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Keeping in mind your team's priorities for each of the above.

The best way to make a bad deal is to lock into a path, telegraph to everyone you need to make this shot, and then 30 GMs chum up to you with their garbage in tow.

Online herman

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Re: Leivo asks to traded, Sosh being showcased?
« Reply #27 on: February 06, 2018, 09:54:03 AM »
Honestly, I think Sosh and Leivo are more likely to be traded than JvR.

Online CarltonTheBear

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Re: Leivo asks to traded, Sosh being showcased?
« Reply #28 on: February 06, 2018, 09:54:19 AM »
I take your point, but the flip side of that is that he has been heavily sheltered in a third line role.

So can you justify paying him as a top-six winger when you need to play him in a third line role to prevent him being victimized defensively?

But the flip side of THAT is that if he was playing on the top line he goes from Bozak to Kadri or even Matthews. So quality of competition might go up but so does quality of team mates. And JVR's shown in the past (when he played with Kessel) that he can produce on a top line. Granted they played a run-and-guny style that wouldn't work with Babcock but I don't really have much doubt that JVR would put up impressive numbers with Matthews.

But I do agree with your general point, and I've said it myself recently that if the Leafs are even remotely considering re-signing JVR they have to try him in the top-6, preferably with Matthews. I agree completely that you can't have him playing under 15 minutes if you're going to give him $6mil-ish.

Online CarltonTheBear

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Re: Leivo asks to traded, Sosh being showcased?
« Reply #29 on: February 06, 2018, 09:55:07 AM »
Honestly, I think Sosh and Leivo are more likely to be traded than JvR.

JVR's not getting traded.

One of Sosh or Leivo will probably be gone within the week though I think.
« Last Edit: February 06, 2018, 10:00:24 AM by CarltonTheBear »

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Re: Leivo asks to traded, Sosh being showcased?
« Reply #29 on: February 06, 2018, 09:55:07 AM »