Author Topic: 2018 Toronto Blue Jays General Season Thread  (Read 5484 times)

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Online Arn

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Re: 2018 Toronto Blue Jays General Season Thread
« Reply #165 on: Today at 05:30:48 AM »
Guerrero coming up to replace him.

While I don't fully understand the contracts and organisation control of MLB, I wouldn't waste a year of his contract or bring a player up into a shitshow that the Jays are currently turning into
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Offline Nik the Trik

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Re: 2018 Toronto Blue Jays General Season Thread
« Reply #166 on: Today at 08:21:34 AM »
While I don't fully understand the contracts and organisation control of MLB, I wouldn't waste a year of his contract or bring a player up into a shitshow that the Jays are currently turning into

I think they could bring him up at any point after June 1st and his contract status would be unchanged so there's no real worry there. The bigger question is, as you say, what could appreciably be gained from bringing him up when this team's problems run so deep.

I think the smart thing to do would be to let him play the season in the minors(although call him up to AAA at some point) and maybe make him a September call up. That way he can sample big league pitching while the team can use the DH spot to try and coax some decent performances out of players they may want to flip for assets.

Because, honestly, otherwise it seems like a desperation to play meaningful September baseball instead of a long term vision of what's best for Guerrero or the team.
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Online Andy

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Re: 2018 Toronto Blue Jays General Season Thread
« Reply #167 on: Today at 08:44:16 AM »
Well bringing him up before June 1st makes no sense but I'd absolutely consider it after that deadline passes.

The jump to AA is usually the biggest learning curve for prospects and Vlad is absolutely destroying that level at nearly unprecedented numbers. I'm not really sure what kind of test AAA is going to be; in all likelihood he'd be facing less talented opponents.

A September call-up would be nice and all but that never really paints a strong picture of a young player's worth, what with the season ending and some teams not trying, others resting their stars, teams starting their own call-ups, pressure from winning alleviated, and so forth.

After June 1st bring him up. It wouldn't affect the long term vision of the team at all if his contract status remains unchanged.


Offline Nik the Trik

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Re: 2018 Toronto Blue Jays General Season Thread
« Reply #168 on: Today at 09:00:08 AM »
A September call-up would be nice and all but that never really paints a strong picture of a young player's worth, what with the season ending and some teams not trying, others resting their stars, teams starting their own call-ups, pressure from winning alleviated, and so forth.

That seems to be working on the assumption that the purpose of calling him up would be evaluation as opposed to development. I don't think the Jays need a stronger picture of his worth. He's hitting .427. I think it's safe to say he's pretty good.

The question is what, if anything, calling him up actually does for anyone. Especially if you're just going to DH him. Just looking at most of the other top prospects in the game, most of them spent a reasonable amount of time at AAA so clearly their teams thought there was a value in the shift. Meanwhile he can work on his fielding away from the bright lights and media scrutiny that doing so in the big leagues would bring. Then, in September, he gets enough of a look at real Major League pitching to either humble him and get him ready for next year or encourage him while exposing him to the unique challenges of playing big league ball.

The flip side being they bring him up and...what? He hits like crazy and the Jays end up drafting 15th instead of 11th?
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Online bustaheims

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Re: 2018 Toronto Blue Jays General Season Thread
« Reply #169 on: Today at 09:30:30 AM »
Let's also not forget that he just turned 19 a couple months ago. Let's not rush the kid.
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Online Arn

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Re: 2018 Toronto Blue Jays General Season Thread
« Reply #170 on: Today at 09:40:10 AM »
Thanks for clarifying that - I thought it was any time up til the rosters expanded in September would burn a year of his contract so fair enough on that point.

However a bit like the Leafs have started to do, let him stay in the minors a little longer rather than rush him. It's pretty obvious the Jays won't be contending for the playoffs this season at this point and there's a few guys who probably need moved out if possible. Let the kid dominate and win rather than come up and potentially stall (all be it he probably wouldn't) and get into a losing atmosphere.
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Online Andy

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Re: 2018 Toronto Blue Jays General Season Thread
« Reply #171 on: Today at 09:43:28 AM »
Let's also not forget that he just turned 19 a couple months ago. Let's not rush the kid.

Sure, and he's got an OPS near 1.200 and has walked more times than he has struck out. This isn't a regular prospect or normal situation; Vlad is an absolute phenom. I'm not sure why you'd keep him playing against inferior opponents simply because of his age.

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Re: 2018 Toronto Blue Jays General Season Thread
« Reply #172 on: Today at 09:50:44 AM »
A September call-up would be nice and all but that never really paints a strong picture of a young player's worth, what with the season ending and some teams not trying, others resting their stars, teams starting their own call-ups, pressure from winning alleviated, and so forth.

That seems to be working on the assumption that the purpose of calling him up would be evaluation as opposed to development. I don't think the Jays need a stronger picture of his worth. He's hitting .427. I think it's safe to say he's pretty good.

The question is what, if anything, calling him up actually does for anyone. Especially if you're just going to DH him. Just looking at most of the other top prospects in the game, most of them spent a reasonable amount of time at AAA so clearly their teams thought there was a value in the shift. Meanwhile he can work on his fielding away from the bright lights and media scrutiny that doing so in the big leagues would bring. Then, in September, he gets enough of a look at real Major League pitching to either humble him and get him ready for next year or encourage him while exposing him to the unique challenges of playing big league ball.

The flip side being they bring him up and...what? He hits like crazy and the Jays end up drafting 15th instead of 11th?

I certainly see both sides and you do make a lot of good points. I just think I'd prefer to see him challenged and getting instruction at the big league level. Why not let him work on his fielding with MLB teachers as opposed to AAA?

3B is open; Donaldson is either going to be traded, put on the DL or used at 1st/DH (his arm/shoulder is clearly still injured). Vlad's MLB ready and numerous scouts have echoed this sentiment. It will also give the fans someone to watch/root for while (hopefully) a ton of vets are cleared off the roster for prospects. I really don't see the downside.

Offline Nik the Trik

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Re: 2018 Toronto Blue Jays General Season Thread
« Reply #173 on: Today at 10:00:18 AM »
Why not let him work on his fielding with MLB teachers as opposed to AAA?

It's not a terrible idea or anything. I'm just worried of hitting him with the dual challenges of having to adjust to major league pitching aend developing as a fielder at the same time. Especially when every mistake will be magnified at this level.

3B is open; Donaldson is either going to be traded, put on the DL or used at 1st/DH (his arm/shoulder is clearly still injured). Vlad's MLB ready and numerous scouts have echoed this sentiment. It will also give the fans someone to watch/root for while (hopefully) a ton of vets are cleared off the roster for prospects. I really don't see the downside.

I think that if you wanted to call him up post-trade deadline, when Donaldson and Smoak are likely gone, as opposed to in September it would be fine enough but again I'm really stretching to try and see a real upside for either Guerrero or the team in bringing him up that early. The Jays aren't good enough for him to make a real difference this year and I don't think an extra month or two will make a big change in his development when regardless of how he plays this year he's going to be with the Jays next year.

I may very well be being overly cautious in the application of the kid gloves here but I really don't know if doing it to throw a bone to fans is a good reason.
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Re: 2018 Toronto Blue Jays General Season Thread
« Reply #174 on: Today at 10:11:31 AM »
Sure, and he's got an OPS near 1.200 and has walked more times than he has struck out. This isn't a regular prospect or normal situation; Vlad is an absolute phenom. I'm not sure why you'd keep him playing against inferior opponents simply because of his age.

Because his development as a person is as important as his development as a player. Rushing him into a situation he may not be mature enough to handle is a recipe for disaster. Bringing him up to the bigs does little to nothing for the team right now, so why risk it? Let him destroy AA pitching for a couple more months, then move him up to AAA, and let's see how he does there.
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Re: 2018 Toronto Blue Jays General Season Thread
« Reply #175 on: Today at 10:27:22 AM »
Sure, and he's got an OPS near 1.200 and has walked more times than he has struck out. This isn't a regular prospect or normal situation; Vlad is an absolute phenom. I'm not sure why you'd keep him playing against inferior opponents simply because of his age.

Because his development as a person is as important as his development as a player. Rushing him into a situation he may not be mature enough to handle is a recipe for disaster. Bringing him up to the bigs does little to nothing for the team right now, so why risk it? Let him destroy AA pitching for a couple more months, then move him up to AAA, and let's see how he does there.

Yea, I can understand not wanting to rush him, it's crazy that he's still only 19, but I guess I just don't see how keeping him in a league he is destroying for an extra two months adds to his level of maturity. I would, at least, do what Nik is suggesting. Promote him to AAA with the aim of a September call up. I don't see any reason to keep him in AA.

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Re: 2018 Toronto Blue Jays General Season Thread
« Reply #175 on: Today at 10:27:22 AM »