Author Topic: Armchair GM 2017-2018  (Read 13882 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline AvroArrow

  • Veteran
  • ****
  • Posts: 1418
    • View Profile
Re: Armchair GM 2017-2018
« Reply #210 on: January 09, 2018, 07:01:45 PM »
I'm a no at that price.  I'd rather spend an extra 2-3M on a Karlsson or Doughty or Tavares.

Offline Dappleganger

  • Veteran
  • ****
  • Posts: 1335
    • View Profile
Re: Armchair GM 2017-2018
« Reply #211 on: January 09, 2018, 09:00:09 PM »
Why not have both?  8)

Offline Highlander

  • Veteran
  • ****
  • Posts: 4341
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Armchair GM 2017-2018
« Reply #212 on: January 13, 2018, 11:12:54 AM »
Did you see the ESPN report on Hedman being injured and Morgan Rielly being a possible replacement for him?
Must have been some bad acid for that writer!
"We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our children"
                                           Navaho Proverb

Online Guru Tugginmypuddah

  • Veteran
  • ****
  • Posts: 2195
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Armchair GM 2017-2018
« Reply #213 on: January 13, 2018, 11:32:05 AM »
Did you see the ESPN report on Hedman being injured and Morgan Rielly being a possible replacement for him?
Must have been some bad acid for that writer!

The article talks about Rielly possibly replacing Hedman at the All-Star game.

Offline Bullfrog

  • Veteran
  • ****
  • Posts: 4126
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Armchair GM 2017-2018
« Reply #214 on: January 13, 2018, 11:37:56 AM »
Seems like a logical choice to me; he's earned it.

Offline bustaheims

  • Sittler Status
  • ******
  • Posts: 19613
  • 56!
    • View Profile
Re: Armchair GM 2017-2018
« Reply #215 on: January 13, 2018, 11:42:26 AM »
Did you see the ESPN report on Hedman being injured and Morgan Rielly being a possible replacement for him?
Must have been some bad acid for that writer!

The article talks about Rielly possibly replacing Hedman at the All-Star game.

That makes much more sense.
"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

Online CarltonTheBear

  • Global Moderator
  • Sittler Status
  • *****
  • Posts: 19118
    • View Profile
Re: Armchair GM 2017-2018
« Reply #216 on: January 13, 2018, 11:59:48 AM »
Did you see the ESPN report on Hedman being injured and Morgan Rielly being a possible replacement for him?
Must have been some bad acid for that writer!

Or maybe the reader...

Online herman

  • All Star
  • *****
  • Posts: 8617
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Armchair GM 2017-2018
« Reply #217 on: January 13, 2018, 09:28:08 PM »
These are going to start coming in:
https://theleafsnation.com/2018/01/13/why-the-leafs-need-to-trade-jvr-before-the-trade-deadline/

In this article, JvR's future deal is compared to similarly aged players who netted large-ish UFA deals: Oshie, Lucic, Okposo, Ladd, Eriksson. I'm not sure if it is merely a function of having watched him play more than others on this list, but I'm easily more confident in JvR's production than the others at the time of those signings (to which I scoffed at).

I suspect the Leafs will still retain him.

I hope they trade him and Bozak and Komarov (and Moore and Polak) for futures/deadline trade chips, but I hoped that for the past two years when their value was pretty much peaked. Get enough resources from trading away our UFA to bes and we can probably throw together a very competitive package for Damon Severson (who is on a long term deal until 2023 but seems to be falling off their depth chart) + Marcus Johansson (Bozak replacement).

Offline skrackle

  • Marlie
  • **
  • Posts: 195
    • View Profile
Re: Armchair GM 2017-2018
« Reply #218 on: January 13, 2018, 11:58:37 PM »
I was going to quote your post in this reply, Herman. For some reason, that function isn't working for me. But anyway...

I agree with the article author's premise. The young core of the Leafs isn't ready to assume leadership. The veterans they have aren't good enough to lead the team to any real success.

I'd be looking to move any of the veterans; JVR, Komorov, Bozak, Moore, etc. for whatever they would bring in return. Including Marleau, but does he have a NTC? I'm not sure on that.

I'm also not sure what the point of signing him was, unless one buys into the veteran mentorship idea. There might be something to that, but the term and salary seem excessive for what he's actually contributing. It's too early in the day for the Leafs to be paying players for what they've done for other teams. I was hoping the current Leafs management had gotten past that unfortunate tendency.

I'm very interested to see how the Leafs braintrust is going to handle the rest of the season.

Online herman

  • All Star
  • *****
  • Posts: 8617
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Armchair GM 2017-2018
« Reply #219 on: January 14, 2018, 07:36:51 AM »
I agree with the article author's premise. The young core of the Leafs isn't ready to assume leadership. The veterans they have aren't good enough to lead the team to any real success.

I'd be looking to move any of the veterans; JVR, Komorov, Bozak, Moore, etc. for whatever they would bring in return. Including Marleau, but does he have a NTC? I'm not sure on that.

I'm also not sure what the point of signing him was, unless one buys into the veteran mentorship idea. There might be something to that, but the term and salary seem excessive for what he's actually contributing. It's too early in the day for the Leafs to be paying players for what they've done for other teams. I was hoping the current Leafs management had gotten past that unfortunate tendency.

I'm very interested to see how the Leafs braintrust is going to handle the rest of the season.

I think you answered your own question regarding why Marleau was signed (young core isnít ready to assume leadership). He has a no movement clause, so if we do move him, itíll be by his choice.

As a numbers and facts person in general, I do buy the veteran leadership angle largely based on what Iíve seen on teams Iíve run and how other rebuilding teams appeared to work (still very intangible). When he was signed, I saw it as a veteran mentor for the superstars from the top of the draft list who has maintained his body and personal life to be above reproach. I think there is value in embedding that type of dedication/professionalism/leadership by example into your lineup of young superstars. Martin might be good for giving the kids an older brother, but he knows little to nothing of the pressures of being a top pick and playing nearly forever with one organization.

As for his cost, he didnít pick the highest offer, but he certainly still wouldnít have come if we didnít cross a certain threshold. With our LTIR situation, we had the flexibility to throw more money than warranted at his performance level to grease the wheels. Heck, Thornton was propositioned as well but he chose to stay. The difference with this front officeís veteran purchases than previous ones is that they are complementary purchases to insulate the outsides of the core (from the top/side and from the bottom) rather than core player transactions. I noted this earlier, but they basically chose skating/still performing vets for every class of player in the lineup. These arenít their primary reasons for being acquired (they still need to be able to play), but a healthy portion of the decision in my estimation.

Offline Highlander

  • Veteran
  • ****
  • Posts: 4341
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Armchair GM 2017-2018
« Reply #220 on: January 14, 2018, 11:07:57 AM »
Did you see the ESPN report on Hedman being injured and Morgan Rielly being a possible replacement for him?
Must have been some bad acid for that writer!

Or maybe the reader...
Maybe a flashback from 40 years ago.LOL...didnt see it was allstar game
"We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our children"
                                           Navaho Proverb

Offline skrackle

  • Marlie
  • **
  • Posts: 195
    • View Profile
Re: Armchair GM 2017-2018
« Reply #221 on: January 14, 2018, 11:43:41 AM »
I agree with the article author's premise. The young core of the Leafs isn't ready to assume leadership. The veterans they have aren't good enough to lead the team to any real success.

I'd be looking to move any of the veterans; JVR, Komorov, Bozak, Moore, etc. for whatever they would bring in return. Including Marleau, but does he have a NTC? I'm not sure on that.

I'm also not sure what the point of signing him was, unless one buys into the veteran mentorship idea. There might be something to that, but the term and salary seem excessive for what he's actually contributing. It's too early in the day for the Leafs to be paying players for what they've done for other teams. I was hoping the current Leafs management had gotten past that unfortunate tendency.

I'm very interested to see how the Leafs braintrust is going to handle the rest of the season.

I think you answered your own question regarding why Marleau was signed (young core isnít ready to assume leadership). He has a no movement clause, so if we do move him, itíll be by his choice.

As a numbers and facts person in general, I do buy the veteran leadership angle largely based on what Iíve seen on teams Iíve run and how other rebuilding teams appeared to work (still very intangible). When he was signed, I saw it as a veteran mentor for the superstars from the top of the draft list who has maintained his body and personal life to be above reproach. I think there is value in embedding that type of dedication/professionalism/leadership by example into your lineup of young superstars. Martin might be good for giving the kids an older brother, but he knows little to nothing of the pressures of being a top pick and playing nearly forever with one organization.

As for his cost, he didnít pick the highest offer, but he certainly still wouldnít have come if we didnít cross a certain threshold. With our LTIR situation, we had the flexibility to throw more money than warranted at his performance level to grease the wheels. Heck, Thornton was propositioned as well but he chose to stay. The difference with this front officeís veteran purchases than previous ones is that they are complementary purchases to insulate the outsides of the core (from the top/side and from the bottom) rather than core player transactions. I noted this earlier, but they basically chose skating/still performing vets for every class of player in the lineup. These arenít their primary reasons for being acquired (they still need to be able to play), but a healthy portion of the decision in my estimation.

Yeah, I can buy the mentorship angle to a certain degree. The 3rd year of Marleau's contract could end up being a big price to pay for it. One thing current management seems to be good at is handling problematic contracts, so maybe they have that figured out.

I've long been a proponent of tanking. While I realize that it's not a guaranteed path to success, I wish the Leafs had stayed in that mode a bit longer. I do hope the Leafs continue to move assets like JVR while they have trade value. My biggest concern with the Leafs going forward is that they'll end up like the NY Islanders- a team with some elite talent, but just not enough to go anywhere with.

It is a fascinating process to watch, though. It's still early days.

Online herman

  • All Star
  • *****
  • Posts: 8617
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Armchair GM 2017-2018
« Reply #222 on: January 15, 2018, 03:14:15 PM »
Dredging up a slightly old idea because Mirtle got a question about it today:
The Leafs should take a healthy run at getting a matchup centre, and UFA ones are not as out of reach as RHD. With all due respect to Kadri, I think he's a better Bozak replacement than Selke winner.

Prime example: Mikael Backlund

This is what happens if we drop him into our lineup (after dumping JvR, Bozak, Komarov). The money he'd be looking for is quite doable. Term might be a bit more questionable, but we don't have anyone in the pipeline.

Hyman - Matthews - Nylander
Marleau - Backlund - Brown/Kapanen
Soshnikov - Kadri - Marner
Johnsson - Gauthier - Brown/Kapanen
Martin

Trade for Marcus Johanssen as well with some spare LD prospects (Nielsen, Valiev, or a goalie in Kaskisuo), and you get some more of that centres playing wing redundancy that Babcock (rightly) desires:

Hyman - Matthews - Nylander
Marleau - Backlund - Brown/Kapanen
Johanssen - Kadri - Marner
Johnsson - Gauthier - Brown/Kapanen
Soshnikov, Martin

Right-side draws will be taken by the RW anyway. Gauthier might not be in the organization after this season anyway, so sub in whatever 4C UFA is okay.
« Last Edit: January 15, 2018, 03:17:46 PM by herman »

TMLfans.ca

Re: Armchair GM 2017-2018
« Reply #222 on: January 15, 2018, 03:14:15 PM »