Author Topic: The Last Jedi (spoilers!)  (Read 885 times)

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Offline Joe S.

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Re: The Last Jedi (spoilers!)
« Reply #15 on: December 21, 2017, 02:32:20 PM »
I'm not defending nor am I dismissing. But Luke wasn't murdered in this movie.


Online CarltonTheBear

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Re: The Last Jedi (spoilers!)
« Reply #16 on: December 21, 2017, 02:36:08 PM »
I'm not defending nor am I dismissing. But Luke wasn't murdered in this movie.



Yeah I mean he literally died a hero, inspiring hope and optimism in the process.

Online L K

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Re: The Last Jedi (spoilers!)
« Reply #17 on: December 21, 2017, 02:38:31 PM »
The one character who was done wrong was Ackbar. 

Offline TimKerr

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Re: The Last Jedi (spoilers!)
« Reply #18 on: December 21, 2017, 02:41:07 PM »
I'm not defending nor am I dismissing. But Luke wasn't murdered in this movie.



Yeah I mean he literally died a hero, inspiring hope and optimism in the process.

I don't agree with the argument but I think TMLFan is implying Luke the character and all his beliefs were murdered in this movie. He basically turns on everything the Jedi supposedly represented.

Personally, I like the turn that Luke took. It represents the force as all-inclusive and not for only the select few. I mean if you wanted to, you could create the argument that all the negativity and exclusion the Jedi council went through with Anakin in the prequels basically created Anakin. He was a self-fulfilling prophecy for the Council.

This is why it is so important that Rey's parents are 'nobodies'. That kid at the end with the broomstick? Those are the citizens that are going to form the resistance going forward. I'm excited for the future of the franchise.

Offline TML fan

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Re: The Last Jedi (spoilers!)
« Reply #19 on: December 21, 2017, 03:00:24 PM »
He didn't just turn his back on everything the Jedi believed in. He turned his back on everything we understood him to believe in, for a really stupid reason.

I agree with Luke's views on the Jedi order and what caused their downfall. I even had a feeling they were going to go in that direction. None of that explains Luke's drastic abandonment of his convictions.

Offline LittleHockeyFan

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Re: The Last Jedi (spoilers!)
« Reply #20 on: December 21, 2017, 04:47:07 PM »
I loved Star Wars/Empire/Return of the Jedi.

I tolerated The Phantom Menace.

I despised Attack of the Clones and Revenge of the Sith.

I was meh about The Force Awakens.

and I liked The Last Jedi......right up until they killed off Luke.

I'm done.

Offline Dappleganger

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Re: The Last Jedi (spoilers!)
« Reply #21 on: December 21, 2017, 07:38:52 PM »
Luke didn't receive proper training. It makes sense he couldn't handle the force.

Offline hockeyfan1

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Re: The Last Jedi (spoilers!)
« Reply #22 on: December 22, 2017, 01:00:54 AM »
Saw the first three Star Wars movies back in the day, which will always be the favourites.  They had just the right amount of character development, emotional pull, and sentiment, coupled with all that great action.  The Empire Strikes Back was Lucas' only caveat with director Irvin Kershner's interpretation of the movie -- Cloud City looked too clean and the lack of grittiness in the surroundings of the movie in general.  That being said, it was still very much enjoyable.

I also saw Phantam Menace in which it was reported that Lucas regretted the all too laughable (and silly) character of Jar Jar Binks.  Something about the making of this movie seemed off-key.

Attack of the Clones was actually well done in terms of showcasing Anakin's development vs Ben Kenobi's and the whole Jedi thing.  We could begin to see (at times) a vulnerable, prone to extreme emotion and impatience,  & adangerously 'irresponsible' Anakin Skywalker.  I liked watching the Anakin vs Kenobi differences/disagreements & defiances.

Revenge of the Sith with that battle between now evil and warped Anakin against Obiwan Kenobi, with the volcanic-spewing backdrop, was epic.  Later, left for dead but rescued by the Emperor, it show how Anakin becomes Vader in full armour.  That scene of him in full Vader regalia, a tortured soul still, even though he's firmly on the dark side, asking of Padme (his wife) and being in disbelief when the Emperor says he (Anakin) killed her and so on.  It shows a glimpse, an oh-so-fine glimpse of what he once held dear...

I have not seen The Force Awakens and this latest installment in The Last Jedi.

Well, things change, people change, but the one thing that will always remain is..."May the Force Be with You".

Long live Star Wars!
« Last Edit: December 22, 2017, 01:05:16 AM by hockeyfan1 »

Offline Significantly Insignificant

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Re: The Last Jedi (spoilers!)
« Reply #23 on: December 22, 2017, 09:53:54 AM »
I'm not exactly sure what new path they were trying to strike out on, nor why blazing a new trail necessitated tearing down everything built before it.

I get that they want to move on from the OT characters but they didn't have to murder Luke the way they did. How you go from having so much hope and optimism that you think you can turn Darth Vader to basically just giving up because some kid had bad thoughts is just asinine.

I think the point with Kylo Ren was that in Vader he could see that there was still good in him, and with Kylo Ren, he couldn't, there was nothing there, and his first reaction to that was that he should kill it, and that reaction scared him because he essentially made a mistake that resulted in the loss of countless lives, and the loss of his nephew, and he just couldn't deal with that.
"Progress lies not in enhancing what is, but in advancing toward what will be. - Khalil Gibran

Online L K

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Re: The Last Jedi (spoilers!)
« Reply #24 on: December 22, 2017, 10:07:53 AM »
I'm not exactly sure what new path they were trying to strike out on, nor why blazing a new trail necessitated tearing down everything built before it.

I get that they want to move on from the OT characters but they didn't have to murder Luke the way they did. How you go from having so much hope and optimism that you think you can turn Darth Vader to basically just giving up because some kid had bad thoughts is just asinine.

I think the point with Kylo Ren was that in Vader he could see that there was still good in him, and with Kylo Ren, he couldn't, there was nothing there, and his first reaction to that was that he should kill it, and that reaction scared him because he essentially made a mistake that resulted in the loss of countless lives, and the loss of his nephew, and he just couldn't deal with that.

Doesn't the notion that Kylo Ren hesitates every single time he faces one of his family members fly in the face of Ren being completely devoid of good?  He stalled killing Han.  He avoiding blowing up Leia.  That's pretty much a pretty sound argument that he's a conflicted character.  It does seem odd that Luke would be blind enough to not see some of that, especially given that Vader gave him less reason to believer there was "good in him" earlier in his life.

Offline Significantly Insignificant

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Re: The Last Jedi (spoilers!)
« Reply #25 on: December 22, 2017, 10:18:44 AM »
I'm not exactly sure what new path they were trying to strike out on, nor why blazing a new trail necessitated tearing down everything built before it.

I get that they want to move on from the OT characters but they didn't have to murder Luke the way they did. How you go from having so much hope and optimism that you think you can turn Darth Vader to basically just giving up because some kid had bad thoughts is just asinine.

I think the point with Kylo Ren was that in Vader he could see that there was still good in him, and with Kylo Ren, he couldn't, there was nothing there, and his first reaction to that was that he should kill it, and that reaction scared him because he essentially made a mistake that resulted in the loss of countless lives, and the loss of his nephew, and he just couldn't deal with that.

Doesn't the notion that Kylo Ren hesitates every single time he faces one of his family members fly in the face of Ren being completely devoid of good?  He stalled killing Han.  He avoiding blowing up Leia.  That's pretty much a pretty sound argument that he's a conflicted character.  It does seem odd that Luke would be blind enough to not see some of that, especially given that Vader gave him less reason to believer there was "good in him" earlier in his life.

Maybe, but Vader's drive was to save the love of his life.  What he did, he did because he thought he was going to save Padme.  Kylo is doing what he is doing to become known as better than Vader, to succeed where he failed.

Also, Snoke may have been masking some of what Luke was seeing.  The 4,5,6 installments of Star Wars are a redemption tale, and I think they are trying to break from that.  To me it looks like they are trying to build Ren up as someone who can't be saved, which is that even though he hesitates, ultimately he wants to be evil.
"Progress lies not in enhancing what is, but in advancing toward what will be. - Khalil Gibran

Offline TML fan

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Re: The Last Jedi (spoilers!)
« Reply #26 on: December 22, 2017, 11:27:18 AM »
I think they made it clear that Ben Solo turned because of what Luke did and not solely because of some quest to be more powerful than Darth Vader.

Offline Significantly Insignificant

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Re: The Last Jedi (spoilers!)
« Reply #27 on: December 22, 2017, 11:40:52 AM »
I think they made it clear that Ben Solo turned because of what Luke did and not solely because of some quest to be more powerful than Darth Vader.

Snoke had already twisted Ben Solo by the time Luke had decided to do something about it.  Luke's regret was that his reaction to how far Ben had sunk pushed him further away.  Snoke used Ben's desire to be better than Vader to turn him.
"Progress lies not in enhancing what is, but in advancing toward what will be. - Khalil Gibran

Offline TML fan

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Re: The Last Jedi (spoilers!)
« Reply #28 on: December 22, 2017, 12:53:28 PM »
I honestly don't remember Snoke's involvement in that. I'll have to see the movie again.

And that still doesn't explain Luke's reaction. He won't kill his father who already IS evil, but he will kill his nephew who isn't but wants to be?
« Last Edit: December 22, 2017, 12:56:10 PM by TML fan »

Offline Significantly Insignificant

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Re: The Last Jedi (spoilers!)
« Reply #29 on: December 22, 2017, 01:00:42 PM »
I honestly don't remember Snoke's involvement in that. I'll have to see the movie again.

And that still doesn't explain Luke's reaction. He won't kill his father who already IS evil, but he will kill his nephew who isn't but wants to be?

You shouldn't go see a movie that you don't like again:

http://comicbook.com/starwars/2017/12/17/star-wars-the-last-jedi-kylo-ren-dark-side-luke-skywalker/

I do find it interesting that this movie is very divisive.  I talked to a huge Star Wars fan last night who absolutely hated the movie.  I consider myself a fan of Star Wars ( since I was 5 ) and I liked the movie.  Although I am not much of a critic on movies, and I just go to see them.  As long as I don't feel like I wasted my two hours or whatever, I am generally happy. 
"Progress lies not in enhancing what is, but in advancing toward what will be. - Khalil Gibran

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Re: The Last Jedi (spoilers!)
« Reply #29 on: December 22, 2017, 01:00:42 PM »