Author Topic: Capitals @ Leafs - Nov. 25th. 7:00pm - CBC, TSN 1050  (Read 2258 times)

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Offline Bullfrog

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Re: Capitals @ Leafs - Nov. 25th. 7:00pm - CBC, TSN 1050
« Reply #90 on: November 25, 2017, 11:36:25 PM »
The Leafs have looked like crap far too often this year.  This should be a fast team and they look painfully slow.  Who is responsible for that problem?
Their speed is overrated. Other than Nylander, Marner and Hyman, which forwards would you consider fast? And Nylander has looked like he's skating in mud lately, Marner is always falling down, Hyman is fast but doesn't handle the puck well.

Marleau's one of the best skaters in the league.

Offline Chris

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Re: Capitals @ Leafs - Nov. 25th. 7:00pm - CBC, TSN 1050
« Reply #91 on: November 26, 2017, 12:40:01 AM »
The Leafs have looked like crap far too often this year.  This should be a fast team and they look painfully slow.  Who is responsible for that problem?
Their speed is overrated. Other than Nylander, Marner and Hyman, which forwards would you consider fast? And Nylander has looked like he's skating in mud lately, Marner is always falling down, Hyman is fast but doesn't handle the puck well.

Marleau's one of the best skaters in the league.

He's a good skater especially for his age, probably a bit above average but certainly not a speed blazer out there.

All the teams we've been playing lately look faster than the Leafs for the most part. Probably system-related but we're not as fast as many claim. We do have a lot of offensive skill though, so we are good at capitalizing on opportunities.

Offline hockeyfan1

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Re: Capitals @ Leafs - Nov. 25th. 7:00pm - CBC, TSN 1050
« Reply #92 on: November 26, 2017, 07:01:37 AM »
Ovi's hat-trick makes 13 yr.old cancer survivor proud in fulfilling promise:

https://www.nhl.com/news/alex-ovechkin-fulfills-promise-to-score-to-cancer-survivor/c-293375558

Offline Frank E

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Re: Capitals @ Leafs - Nov. 25th. 7:00pm - CBC, TSN 1050
« Reply #93 on: November 26, 2017, 08:59:23 AM »
The Leafs have looked like crap far too often this year.  This should be a fast team and they look painfully slow.  Who is responsible for that problem?
Their speed is overrated. Other than Nylander, Marner and Hyman, which forwards would you consider fast? And Nylander has looked like he's skating in mud lately, Marner is always falling down, Hyman is fast but doesn't handle the puck well.

Marleau's one of the best skaters in the league.

Matthews is pretty quick for a big guy too...and Martin, and Rielly, and Gardiner, and Dom Moore. 

I don't think the Kadri line is what I'd call quick, but the rest of the lines have plenty of speed.

I think this team not having enough speed is incorrect, and is a red herring.

Online herman

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Re: Capitals @ Leafs - Nov. 25th. 7:00pm - CBC, TSN 1050
« Reply #94 on: November 26, 2017, 09:32:28 AM »
They have plenty of foot speed, but it doesn’t matter if they don’t have the puck on their stick. Their passes getting stuffed by defenders gapping up on them is what makes them look slow. Taking too long to decide what to do is what makes them look slow.

Offline L K

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Re: Capitals @ Leafs - Nov. 25th. 7:00pm - CBC, TSN 1050
« Reply #95 on: November 26, 2017, 09:41:26 AM »
They have plenty of foot speed, but it doesn’t matter if they don’t have the puck on their stick. Their passes getting stuffed by defenders gapping up on them is what makes them look slow. Taking too long to decide what to do is what makes them look slow.

That is what I meant with speed.  This is a quick team when they play their game.  The problem is they are playing the exact same style despite the neutral zone getting clogged for nearly 20 games.  The coaching staff needs to come up with something different because the team is just not performing to their ability.

Online herman

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Re: Capitals @ Leafs - Nov. 25th. 7:00pm - CBC, TSN 1050
« Reply #96 on: November 26, 2017, 09:49:23 AM »
They have plenty of foot speed, but it doesn’t matter if they don’t have the puck on their stick. Their passes getting stuffed by defenders gapping up on them is what makes them look slow. Taking too long to decide what to do is what makes them look slow.

That is what I meant with speed.  This is a quick team when they play their game.  The problem is they are playing the exact same style despite the neutral zone getting clogged for nearly 20 games.  The coaching staff needs to come up with something different because the team is just not performing to their ability.

Or the players need to recognize when option A is suboptimal and go with an alternate. For coaches, they have to figure out if it’s a matter of system flaw, execution failure, or the other team did something special to earn it.

Offline Bullfrog

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Re: Capitals @ Leafs - Nov. 25th. 7:00pm - CBC, TSN 1050
« Reply #97 on: November 26, 2017, 10:15:35 AM »

Marleau's one of the best skaters in the league.

He's a good skater especially for his age, probably a bit above average but certainly not a speed blazer out there.

All the teams we've been playing lately look faster than the Leafs for the most part. Probably system-related but we're not as fast as many claim. We do have a lot of offensive skill though, so we are good at capitalizing on opportunities.

We must be talking about two different Marleau's here.

Offline Chris

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Re: Capitals @ Leafs - Nov. 25th. 7:00pm - CBC, TSN 1050
« Reply #98 on: November 26, 2017, 11:30:53 AM »
The Leafs have looked like crap far too often this year.  This should be a fast team and they look painfully slow.  Who is responsible for that problem?
Their speed is overrated. Other than Nylander, Marner and Hyman, which forwards would you consider fast? And Nylander has looked like he's skating in mud lately, Marner is always falling down, Hyman is fast but doesn't handle the puck well.

Marleau's one of the best skaters in the league.

Matthews is pretty quick for a big guy too...and Martin, and Rielly, and Gardiner, and Dom Moore. 

I don't think the Kadri line is what I'd call quick, but the rest of the lines have plenty of speed.

I think this team not having enough speed is incorrect, and is a red herring.

I don't think the statement was that the team doesn't have enough speed, but it was that they are not as fast as people make them out to be. Just watch the games. As I said, some of it is undoubtedly system-related but on a regular basis, other teams beat us to pucks all game long. I'd say overall we are an above-average team when it comes to skating, but not the fastest by a long shot.

Matthews is a good skater but come on, he's not fast! He does everything else well, though, so it doesn't matter.

Online CarltonTheBear

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Re: Capitals @ Leafs - Nov. 25th. 7:00pm - CBC, TSN 1050
« Reply #99 on: November 26, 2017, 12:05:47 PM »
They have plenty of foot speed, but it doesn’t matter if they don’t have the puck on their stick. Their passes getting stuffed by defenders gapping up on them is what makes them look slow. Taking too long to decide what to do is what makes them look slow.

That is what I meant with speed.  This is a quick team when they play their game.  The problem is they are playing the exact same style despite the neutral zone getting clogged for nearly 20 games.  The coaching staff needs to come up with something different because the team is just not performing to their ability.

Last night's game was a great example of this. The Leafs didn't look fast in the first two periods. But in the 3rd they dominated because they didn't stop skating and were giving the Caps a fit with their speed.
Frank was right

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Online bustaheims

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Re: Capitals @ Leafs - Nov. 25th. 7:00pm - CBC, TSN 1050
« Reply #100 on: November 26, 2017, 04:11:09 PM »
Last night's game was a great example of this. The Leafs didn't look fast in the first two periods. But in the 3rd they dominated because they didn't stop skating and were giving the Caps a fit with their speed.

Yup. And, I think a lot of that has to do with a combination of Babcock over-coaching/trying to hard to out coach the other guy, and the teams'  inexperience. Once they're free of the line-matching, and the pre-determined defensive assignments, they just take over. It's like they're worrying too much about sticking to the system until they fall behind, and Babcock is just like "whatever, guys, just go for it" - and, suddenly, they look almost unbeatable.
"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

Offline L K

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Re: Capitals @ Leafs - Nov. 25th. 7:00pm - CBC, TSN 1050
« Reply #101 on: November 26, 2017, 04:40:22 PM »
Last night's game was a great example of this. The Leafs didn't look fast in the first two periods. But in the 3rd they dominated because they didn't stop skating and were giving the Caps a fit with their speed.

Yup. And, I think a lot of that has to do with a combination of Babcock over-coaching/trying to hard to out coach the other guy, and the teams'  inexperience. Once they're free of the line-matching, and the pre-determined defensive assignments, they just take over. It's like they're worrying too much about sticking to the system until they fall behind, and Babcock is just like "whatever, guys, just go for it" - and, suddenly, they look almost unbeatable.

And obviously you need more structure to win in the playoffs than “just go do it” but I think the line matching needs to settle down a bit.  I’m fine with the Leafs not riding Matthews into the ground with 30 minutes a night but I think every game having guys in the 16 minute range shouldn’t be an across the board thing.  Some games the Boxal line shouldn’t get 10 minutes.  Other nights they deserve 20.

I would like to see more fluid lineup adjustments rather than sticking to the same 2-3 line combos and then putting them in a blender when the team doesn’t score for 2 periods.

Online bustaheims

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Re: Capitals @ Leafs - Nov. 25th. 7:00pm - CBC, TSN 1050
« Reply #102 on: November 26, 2017, 06:32:46 PM »
The coach is always the softest target.  Even if he's 15-9-1, I guess (as it looks to be).

It wasn't that long ago that the Carlyle helmed Leafs started the season 14-8-1, and many saw a wide range of flaws in his coaching. So, maybe judging the success of the coach's strategies and decisions based on the team's record is not the best way to do things.

(And, yes, I recognize this is a better roster than the 13/14 Leafs, and Babcock is probably a better coach that Carlyle - I'm just saying we shouldn't be judging how well a coach is doing on record alone. He's made some questionable decisions, and the team clearly seems to perform better when he eases up on the reins.)
"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

Online Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate

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Re: Capitals @ Leafs - Nov. 25th. 7:00pm - CBC, TSN 1050
« Reply #103 on: November 26, 2017, 11:14:31 PM »
The coach is always the softest target.  Even if he's 15-9-1, I guess (as it looks to be).

It wasn't that long ago that the Carlyle helmed Leafs started the season 14-8-1, and many saw a wide range of flaws in his coaching. So, maybe judging the success of the coach's strategies and decisions based on the team's record is not the best way to do things.

(And, yes, I recognize this is a better roster than the 13/14 Leafs, and Babcock is probably a better coach that Carlyle - I'm just saying we shouldn't be judging how well a coach is doing on record alone. He's made some questionable decisions, and the team clearly seems to perform better when he eases up on the reins.)

But it is relevant, at least as a reminder when, as I think, some people are ragging on Babcock when the real problem (as usual) is with the players.  For instance, dissecting and re-dissecting whether or not he plays Martin is to get fixated on the margins of success.  I happen to think that somebody else should be playing in that spot, and in a parity league it doesn't make sense to put the most talented players you have on the ice every time.  But I also realize that whoever they play instead of Martin will very likely not make a great deal of difference over the long haul.

Criticizing Babcock's line-matching is a different, more interesting, argument IMO.

So by all means criticize the coach, but I just think don't get carried away with it.  Especially when the team is pretty certainly not as good as they have been hyped to be.

Online louisstamos

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Re: Capitals @ Leafs - Nov. 25th. 7:00pm - CBC, TSN 1050
« Reply #104 on: November 27, 2017, 09:36:26 AM »
To put things in perspective, though, I just saw this chart posted by Jeremy Crowe, who's the analytics guy for the OHL Steelheads (and also a friend of mine!)  He compiled a chart of "real legit wins" - where a team is awarded points based on not just winning the game, but also winning score adjusted corsi, against a team in a playoff spot, and with a PDO under 100.

While the Leafs only have 1 "real legit win," the most any team has is 2 (many have zero still).  On top of which, in terms of total RLW points, they're tied for 6th best in the league, which actually corresponds to their NHL standings (they're 6th best in points).


I think we as fans push the Leafs to be better than they are because we want them to be as close to "perfect" as possible.  But vis-a-vis other teams, they're not faring too badly.

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Re: Capitals @ Leafs - Nov. 25th. 7:00pm - CBC, TSN 1050
« Reply #104 on: November 27, 2017, 09:36:26 AM »