Author Topic: Leafs @ Sharks - Oct. 30th, 10:30pm - SNO, TSN 1050  (Read 2773 times)

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Offline mr grieves

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Re: Leafs @ Sharks - Oct. 30th, 10:30pm - SNO, TSN 1050
« Reply #30 on: October 30, 2017, 06:47:17 PM »
2 - Babcock "If you play well, you won't get taken out of the lineup."
     Fans and media "wow Josh Leivo played great."
     Babcock "I thought Leivo was involved in scoring chances and was very good for us and he was competitive. We need more of that from some of the guys that have been playing each night."
     Fans and media "He must be excited given Babcock's comments."
     Babcock "Take a seat Josh, Matt Martin come on down."

If you have a problem with people pointing out the sheer lunacy of #2 then go look yourself in the mirror and ask yourself if you're really being objective.

We all want the Leafs to win here, calling them on their BS is perfectly acceptable.

And it was even better than that (actual quote above).

Offline mr grieves

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Re: Leafs @ Sharks - Oct. 30th, 10:30pm - SNO, TSN 1050
« Reply #31 on: October 30, 2017, 06:50:36 PM »
However, the Leafs did hire Mike Babcock, not P.T. Barnum.

No.

PT Barnum was an artist.

Babcock's a chintzy motivational speaker.

If he wins a Cup with this team, he'll be flogging reverse montages during his retirement.


I'm frustrated too, but put in to context, they only lost two games in a row. 

No one thinks that they're going to go 82-0. But they're supposed to be a three-line team. And they haven't been this season. Why be complacent until the results align to the performance? I thought the Leafs cast that foolishness out when they dumped Carlyle and Nonis and became a "smart" and "progressive" organization.
« Last Edit: October 30, 2017, 06:55:49 PM by mr grieves »

Online disco

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Re: Leafs @ Sharks - Oct. 30th, 10:30pm - SNO, TSN 1050
« Reply #32 on: October 30, 2017, 07:08:37 PM »
Dawwww...
"I'm here for (6) more years. Then I'm gonna stay for two more because we'll be really good." - Coach Mike Babcock

Offline Significantly Insignificant

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Re: Leafs @ Sharks - Oct. 30th, 10:30pm - SNO, TSN 1050
« Reply #33 on: October 30, 2017, 07:16:27 PM »
However, the Leafs did hire Mike Babcock, not P.T. Barnum.

No.

PT Barnum was an artist.

Babcock's a chintzy motivational speaker.

If he wins a Cup with this team, he'll be flogging reverse montages during his retirement.


I'm frustrated too, but put in to context, they only lost two games in a row. 

No one thinks that they're going to go 82-0. But they're supposed to be a three-line team. And they haven't been this season. Why be complacent until the results align to the performance? I thought the Leafs cast that foolishness out when they dumped Carlyle and Nonis and became a "smart" and "progressive" organization.

I don't think I'm being complacent.  I think there is a difference between being upset with the decisions that the coach is making, and claiming that they are a glorified motivational speaker.  I don't think that Babcock got dumber between this year and last.  Nobody was complaining that he was a fraud last year, but they still didn't agree with all of his choices.  I think the progess that the Leafs have shown towards being a possession based team is a change from the Nonis and Carlyle years.  They are embracing some of the more common understandings of the way hockey is being played these days.

Players go in to slumps, just like you say, no one expects them to be 82-0, and it is also possible that over stretches lines will run hot and cold. 

What I want to see is a response from the team.  I would like them to be competitive defensively against these teams.  If they get blown out of the water over the next two or three games, then that could show an underlying problem.  However if they make progress, and show that they will have a commitment to the defensive side of the puck, then perhaps they'll be a competitive team all year.
"Progress lies not in enhancing what is, but in advancing toward what will be. - Khalil Gibran

Offline herman

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Re: Leafs @ Sharks - Oct. 30th, 10:30pm - SNO, TSN 1050
« Reply #34 on: October 30, 2017, 07:52:57 PM »
1. JvR and Martin weren't playing below the coach's expectations, so sitting your veterans returning from minor injury in favour of the injury subs is a non-starter. Still, it'd be nice to shuffle some things around to get Leivo some playing time because anything less than 38 games played from here on out means Leivo walks as a UFA (and I doubt he'd stay).

2. Leivo played great, but he has to basically play at Nylander-esque levels or produce at JvR rates to supplant a middle 6 winger role; he unfortunately does not have the role-flexibility of Brown, Hyman, Komarov, Kapanen in that he isn't trusted with PK, and the lower lines are PK town. It's sort of the same thing with Carrick vs Polak. If Leivo was a centre, he'd already be in over Bozak, who at this point in the season, is probably the player that has underperformed enough to warrant it. This is a knock against the development staff not rounding out Leivo's game when they had the time like they've done with Kapanen. It's also hard to fault a management team giving development priority to their own picks/players.

3. I'm inferring from observation that Borgman is on a grooming program (similar to Rielly); once Babcock identifies a worthwhile project, he is more than willing to take short-term inefficiencies for the sake of the training program (see Rielly/Zaitsev). Babcock has shown he is aware of these inefficiencies (e.g. "the goal is not to get Matthews the most points"), but also knows we have enough firepower to ride out those bumps over a longer stretch and let those odds play out. Polak comes in over Carrick because he's there to mentor Borgman (Polak 2.0 -- now with more skating ability!). Carrick not being trusted with PK does not help his cause (and Babcock hates short guys on the backend unless they have ridiculous offensive potential -- Carrick himself pointed out, regardless of his own prodigious strength, a larger person has larger reach and leverage and thus has a stronger stick).

4. The Leafs are working through some system adjustments this past stretch of games where they've run into a spate of trap/counter-attack systems either by design of the opponent (Ottawa, NJ) or circumstance of goaltending failures leading to early deficits (Carolina, Philadelphia), hence forcing stretch passes and Gardiner looking frustrating to some (no forward support = low percentage options).

5. Is Andersen working on some new mechanics? He looks a bit unsure, and as a result, slower to react naturally. Granted a good number of the goals against him lately are a result of the Leafs not effectively stifling the counter-attack system and giving up waaaaay more odd-man rushes than usual (hi Polak!).

6. The team getting knocked down a couple of pegs at the end of October after being annointed in the media as Cup-caliber after the first week or two of playing is probably for the best. Teams that waltz into the playoffs with no experience of working together through difficult times usually don't make it through the playoff grind of hard linematching and anti-strategy that comes with repeated encounters. The Leafs making the playoffs last year and nearly toppling the Capitals put the league on notice. No one is taking them lightly this year (the way we took New Jersey lightly) and everyone had lots of time to see how the Capitals neutralized our three-line attack (stuff the weak-link Bozak line) and transition speed advantage (NZ clog + counter attack).

Edit: in case anyone is wondering, I wrote the above before I read any of this: https://mapleleafshotstove.com/2017/10/30/leafs-notebook-dissecting-frederik-andersens-slow-start-october-30/
« Last Edit: October 30, 2017, 07:58:06 PM by herman »

Offline mr grieves

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Re: Leafs @ Sharks - Oct. 30th, 10:30pm - SNO, TSN 1050
« Reply #35 on: October 30, 2017, 08:07:16 PM »
1. JvR and Martin weren't playing below the coach's expectations, so sitting your veterans returning from minor injury in favour of the injury subs is a non-starter. Still, it'd be nice to shuffle some things around to get Leivo some playing time because anything less than 38 games played from here on out means Leivo walks as a UFA (and I doubt he'd stay).

Take a moment to appreciate the managerial wizardry here...

The Leafs will pass on the couple picks and prospect or two that their expiring UFAs would garner -- effectively deadline rentals in reverse -- and by playing those vets every game, regardless of performance (JvR not below expectation...?), convert a cost-controlled, NHL-ready winger into a UFA that'll walk... so they can... uh... win the Cup this year...?

It's a move that'd make some sense if the Leafs had an old core with NMCs and the window was closing... but it doesn't make any sense at this point.

If Leivo was a centre, he'd already be in over Bozak, who at this point in the season, is probably the player that has underperformed enough to warrant it... It's also hard to fault a management team giving development priority to their own picks/players.

I wonder if the Leafs have any other players in their system or even on their roster who can play center...

Offline Significantly Insignificant

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Re: Leafs @ Sharks - Oct. 30th, 10:30pm - SNO, TSN 1050
« Reply #36 on: October 30, 2017, 08:42:50 PM »
Remember when these game day threads were more fun and we discussed how Marleau's parents got to the game?
"Progress lies not in enhancing what is, but in advancing toward what will be. - Khalil Gibran

Online disco

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Re: Leafs @ Sharks - Oct. 30th, 10:30pm - SNO, TSN 1050
« Reply #37 on: October 30, 2017, 09:17:14 PM »
"I'm here for (6) more years. Then I'm gonna stay for two more because we'll be really good." - Coach Mike Babcock

Online disco

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Re: Leafs @ Sharks - Oct. 30th, 10:30pm - SNO, TSN 1050
« Reply #38 on: October 30, 2017, 09:24:14 PM »
"I'm here for (6) more years. Then I'm gonna stay for two more because we'll be really good." - Coach Mike Babcock

Online Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate

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Re: Leafs @ Sharks - Oct. 30th, 10:30pm - SNO, TSN 1050
« Reply #39 on: October 30, 2017, 10:26:00 PM »
The question is: will Arn stay up all night to watch this?


Online disco

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Re: Leafs @ Sharks - Oct. 30th, 10:30pm - SNO, TSN 1050
« Reply #40 on: October 30, 2017, 10:34:20 PM »
I've got the youtube link if anyone needs it.
"I'm here for (6) more years. Then I'm gonna stay for two more because we'll be really good." - Coach Mike Babcock

Online Guru Tugginmypuddah

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Re: Leafs @ Sharks - Oct. 30th, 10:30pm - SNO, TSN 1050
« Reply #41 on: October 30, 2017, 10:38:36 PM »
No pre-game nap, hopefully not a snoozer of a game.

Online louisstamos

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Re: Leafs @ Sharks - Oct. 30th, 10:30pm - SNO, TSN 1050
« Reply #42 on: October 30, 2017, 10:41:50 PM »
Is it me, or is the lighting...off?

Offline Dappleganger

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Re: Leafs @ Sharks - Oct. 30th, 10:30pm - SNO, TSN 1050
« Reply #43 on: October 30, 2017, 10:42:43 PM »
Are they filming this game with a potato?

Online Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate

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Re: Leafs @ Sharks - Oct. 30th, 10:30pm - SNO, TSN 1050
« Reply #44 on: October 30, 2017, 10:42:53 PM »
I've got the youtube link if anyone needs it.

I'd like it, please!

TMLfans.ca

Re: Leafs @ Sharks - Oct. 30th, 10:30pm - SNO, TSN 1050
« Reply #44 on: October 30, 2017, 10:42:53 PM »