Author Topic: What to do with JVR  (Read 1897 times)

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Offline Nik the Trik

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Re: What to do with JVR
« Reply #75 on: October 15, 2017, 01:49:11 PM »
7 of the last 11 Stanley Cups were secured by teams who at least made it to the Conference Finals in the previous season.

4 of the last 11 Stanley Cups were secured by teams who made the playoffs but didn't make it past the 2nd round in the previous season.

4 is less than 7. Simple math.

5 of the last 11 Cups were won by teams with Red as their primary jersey colour.

0 of the last 11 Stanley Cup winners did so with Blue as their primary colour.

5 is greater than 0. Therefore the Leafs cannot win the Stanley Cup with blue uniforms. Similarly simple math, similar complete absence of logic.

Correlation is not Causation.

I do think the Leafs are better with JVR than without, hence the dilemma.

What the Leafs are without JVR depends on what else they have in their lineup. The dilemma is you not acknowledging that.
« Last Edit: October 15, 2017, 01:50:49 PM by Nik the Trik »
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Offline Significantly Insignificant

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Re: What to do with JVR
« Reply #76 on: October 15, 2017, 01:54:03 PM »
I do think the Leafs are better with JVR than without, hence the dilemma.

I don't think that's a statement that can made without knowing what is coming back for JVR.  You said in another post that JVR would do well in Anahiem.  If the deal was JVR for Vatanen, then on paper it would seem that they would actually get stronger.

I did say in an earlier post that I would trade JVR for an upgrade on defence, but I just think that it is unlikely.

Trading JVR earlier than this year may have yielded a d-man.  His price seems to be dropping.  He may walk away for nothing at the end of the year, which in that case means the Leafs get worse next, and get nothing for him.  If they move him for picks, even if they get worse for the time being which is debatable, at least they can recoup some of that in potentially future pieces. 
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Offline AvroArrow

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Re: What to do with JVR
« Reply #77 on: October 15, 2017, 02:52:08 PM »
What about Josh Manson?  When Anaheim's other defenders get back from the IR.  We need the guy who can kill penalties, clear the zone, and deny zone entries more than the offensive player.  Of course the difference status (UFA vs under contract makes a huge difference.

Would love him but I suspect Anaheim wants him for the same reasons.  With all their offensive guys, they likely also want that kind of presence.

Online sickbeast

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Re: What to do with JVR
« Reply #78 on: October 15, 2017, 03:20:29 PM »
The Leafs are in a great position with JVR.  It reminds me of the Blue Jays with Donaldson.  They can simply wait until the trade deadline and see where they're at.  If they're a playoff team, keep him.  If they're not, trade him for picks and prospects.  It's that simple.  While the Leafs are flush with skilled forwards, JVR is a big guy to lose, even if they can parlay him into a decent defenseman.

Offline mr grieves

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Re: What to do with JVR
« Reply #79 on: October 15, 2017, 04:21:08 PM »
I do think the Leafs are better with JVR than without, hence the dilemma.
What the Leafs are without JVR depends on what else they have in their lineup. The dilemma is you not acknowledging that.

Yeah, Dap thinks they're better with him than without, but hasn't explained how that works. If you drop Marleau, Leivo, Kapanen, Johnsson onto a line with Marner, the team's probably scoring fewer goals, has a less potent PP (so that unit plays less), but isn't giving up as much 5v5.


Offline RedLeaf

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Re: What to do with JVR
« Reply #80 on: October 15, 2017, 09:53:53 PM »
I do think the Leafs are better with JVR than without, hence the dilemma.

I don't think that's a statement that can made without knowing what is coming back for JVR.  You said in another post that JVR would do well in Anahiem.  If the deal was JVR for Vatanen, then on paper it would seem that they would actually get stronger.

I did say in an earlier post that I would trade JVR for an upgrade on defence, but I just think that it is unlikely.

Trading JVR earlier than this year may have yielded a d-man.  His price seems to be dropping.  He may walk away for nothing at the end of the year, which in that case means the Leafs get worse next, and get nothing for him.  If they move him for picks, even if they get worse for the time being which is debatable, at least they can recoup some of that in potentially future pieces.

What makes you think his price is dropping? If anything Id say its going up. Hes been scoring goals this season at a pretty decent clip.
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Offline hockeyfan1

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Re: What to do with JVR
« Reply #81 on: October 16, 2017, 05:46:36 AM »
Lamoriello will take his time and make a decision to his strategic advantage.  He's been known to use time as a commodity rather than a weapon, so to speak.  So, whether JVR is traded, re-signed or is let go, will depend largely on Lou & management's view of where the team stands.

Also, as was the case with Connor Brown who signed at a 'discounted' or what's called a 'hometown discount', it's so possible that JVR will lower his contract (re-signing less for long-term), thus making it less difficult for the Leafs as per their salary cap.

Offline Arn

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Re: What to do with JVR
« Reply #82 on: October 16, 2017, 08:40:14 AM »
Lamoriello will take his time and make a decision to his strategic advantage.  He's been known to use time as a commodity rather than a weapon, so to speak.  So, whether JVR is traded, re-signed or is let go, will depend largely on Lou & management's view of where the team stands.

Also, as was the case with Connor Brown who signed at a 'discounted' or what's called a 'hometown discount', it's so possible that JVR will lower his contract (re-signing less for long-term), thus making it less difficult for the Leafs as per their salary cap.

Why's that? Brown is from Ontario, JVR is from New Jersey?
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Online WhatIfGodWasALeaf

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Re: What to do with JVR
« Reply #83 on: October 16, 2017, 08:45:48 AM »
Lamoriello will take his time and make a decision to his strategic advantage.  He's been known to use time as a commodity rather than a weapon, so to speak.  So, whether JVR is traded, re-signed or is let go, will depend largely on Lou & management's view of where the team stands.

Also, as was the case with Connor Brown who signed at a 'discounted' or what's called a 'hometown discount', it's so possible that JVR will lower his contract (re-signing less for long-term), thus making it less difficult for the Leafs as per their salary cap.

Why's that? Brown is from Ontario, JVR is from New Jersey?

It would be because he made his name here, no?

He's had the most successful time of his career in Toronto, so re-signing at a discount would be a 'hometown' discount, even though he's not literally from here.

There have also been numerous reports from the Leafs beat guys that JVR has openly acknowledged a willingness to take less $$$ for more term, ala Oshie.

Offline herman

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Re: What to do with JVR
« Reply #84 on: October 16, 2017, 09:29:03 AM »
It would be because he made his name here, no?

He's had the most successful time of his career in Toronto, so re-signing at a discount would be a 'hometown' discount, even though he's not literally from here.

There have also been numerous reports from the Leafs beat guys that JVR has openly acknowledged a willingness to take less $$$ for more term, ala Oshie.

Unfortunately for JvR, the number that we are more concerned about is the term.

Maybe he's an upper echelon athlete like Marleau appears to be, so 28+8 isn't going to give him much of a dip, but I'd rather another team figure that out. There isn't enough in JvR's game to suggest he can develop any new facets to round out his contributions if his speed declines.

Offline Significantly Insignificant

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Re: What to do with JVR
« Reply #85 on: October 16, 2017, 09:33:18 AM »
I do think the Leafs are better with JVR than without, hence the dilemma.

I don't think that's a statement that can made without knowing what is coming back for JVR.  You said in another post that JVR would do well in Anahiem.  If the deal was JVR for Vatanen, then on paper it would seem that they would actually get stronger.

I did say in an earlier post that I would trade JVR for an upgrade on defence, but I just think that it is unlikely.

Trading JVR earlier than this year may have yielded a d-man.  His price seems to be dropping.  He may walk away for nothing at the end of the year, which in that case means the Leafs get worse next, and get nothing for him.  If they move him for picks, even if they get worse for the time being which is debatable, at least they can recoup some of that in potentially future pieces.

What makes you think his price is dropping? If anything Id say its going up. Hes been scoring goals this season at a pretty decent clip.

The fact that he is a free agent at the end of the year probably affects the price.  Shattenkirk bolting from the Caps last year has probably soured some teams on high priced rentals.  It could be mitigated by allowing teams to talk to JvR before a trade, but that puts a little more power in to JvR's camp than it does the Leafs.  It also seems that the overall price of wingers is dropping.  Ever since the Hall for Larsson deal it seems that teams would rather spend assets to acquire players at other positions rather than on the wings.  These things don't mean that you won't get absolutely nothing for JvR, but if the Leafs had traded him during last season, or when they made the Kessel deal, they probably would have gotten more then they are if the move him this season.
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Re: What to do with JVR
« Reply #85 on: October 16, 2017, 09:33:18 AM »