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* JvR and Bozak, by extension, guarantees that the Leafs have a dangerous (in both directions) third line option for a playoff drive; What is the opportunity cost in losing both of them at the deadline? How does it affect the lineup of youngsters when they see good soldiers for the team sold off for zero current impact?
I don't really get the "Trade JVR/Try to win" dichotomy though. You could trade JVR and, whether it comes internally via someone like Leivo or Kapanen or via a separate deadline deal, still have most of what you want going forward.Hanging onto JVR and letting him walk seems less like a statement about trying to win and more like a timidity to make bold, necessary moves because you're afraid of rocking the boat.
How do you figure that?The "return requirement" on the team's best players at the start of the rebuild (summer 2015?) was "something that gets them a chance at a core piece" -- a top prospect, a relatively high pick, whatever. Well, two years on the Leafs have all the core forwards they need (JvR is not one of them), a decent group of defensemen (though not a 1D -- which JvR would never get you anyway), and a goalie.The "return requirement" now, on all the expiring contracts, should be picks and prospects that might fill out the team's depth. 2021-22's Conner Brown or Carrick -- a cheap, good NHLer to replace the good NHLers you'e got who are no longer cheap.To get those, you need to keep replenishing the pipeline.
Unless they're moving him for another impact player (i.e a defenceman), I'd be pretty surprised if they dealt JVR during the season.
But this is sort of interesting... I don't doubt that JvR is liked, but I suspect Matthews, Nylander, and the like would take JvR's departure as a challenge: it's their team now.
If you prescribe to the idea that the Leafs best chance to win a cup might actually be before the big 3 + Gardiner all have their next contracts kick in (*) then trading those magic beans for a nickel and hoping the prospects provide the same impact during one of the two seasons they have their best shot at it doesn't add up.
Quote from: herman on October 13, 2017, 11:43:32 AMIn principle, I agree with all that you're saying. I don't think the Leafs see JvR that way though.I wasn't really working under the assumption that the front office and I saw things the same way. My contention here is they're wrong.
In principle, I agree with all that you're saying. I don't think the Leafs see JvR that way though.
Yeah, something else to keep in mind is the "nickels" analogy was just meant to highlight a dwindling in value. We have no real way of knowing what the actual market out there is for JVR beyond knowing that the Leafs don't like it more than JVR. But something to keep in mind, and this goes back to the Hamonic stuff, is that while it's probably true that JVR can't fetch the sorts of defenseman that the team really needs, the assets he'd return are far more fungible than he is. I don't think a 1st round pick and two 2nd round picks are more valuable than JVR but I do buy that the Islanders didn't really see a need for JVR.
Depends on who initiated the talks and what all was involved. If the Islanders contacted the Leafs and said that they wanted a package of JVR plus for Hamonic, but they wanted the Leafs to take back salary, it's possible the Islanders decided to go the other route and unload Strome to the Oilers to get a comparable player.
Quote from: Significantly Insignificant on October 13, 2017, 01:36:47 PMDepends on who initiated the talks and what all was involved. If the Islanders contacted the Leafs and said that they wanted a package of JVR plus for Hamonic, but they wanted the Leafs to take back salary, it's possible the Islanders decided to go the other route and unload Strome to the Oilers to get a comparable player. I maybe should have said "can buy" rather than "do buy". I can't say for sure why the Islanders went the other way but I am comfortable in saying that, generally speaking, picks are more fungible than any individual player.