Author Topic: Vegas Tragedy  (Read 598 times)

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Offline Rick Couchman

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Vegas Tragedy
« on: October 02, 2017, 11:15:57 AM »
As of 11am Monday, over 50 dead and over 400 injured.  Gunman is dead.  64 yrs old and living in a seniors apartment?  Strange guy.

Trump spoke 30 mins ago.  As much as I think Donald is an ass, his words were bang on.  First 'presidential' speech I've heard from him.

Offline WhatIfGodWasALeaf

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Re: Vegas Tragedy
« Reply #1 on: October 02, 2017, 02:24:03 PM »
Quote
Number of Americans killed on battlefields in all wars in history:

1,396,733

Killed by firearms in the US since 1968:

1,516,863

(NYT)

Obviously, you feel for all those impacted by this, but people really need to stop using these tragedies as cover for not dealing with the real problem.

The NRA donated $51 million to Trump and five other senators in the last election cycle, WAKE UP!!!

Offline cabber24

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Re: Vegas Tragedy
« Reply #2 on: October 02, 2017, 02:33:15 PM »
Quote
Number of Americans killed on battlefields in all wars in history:

1,396,733

Killed by firearms in the US since 1968:

1,516,863

(NYT)

Obviously, you feel for all those impacted by this, but people really need to stop using these tragedies as cover for not dealing with the real problem.

The NRA donated $51 million to Trump and five other senators in the last election cycle, WAKE UP!!!
No civilian requires an automatic weapon... get a new hobby if need be.
Upon the wicked He will rain Jerseys; blue and white and burning waffles will be the portion of their cup.

Offline bustaheims

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Re: Vegas Tragedy
« Reply #3 on: October 02, 2017, 02:56:00 PM »
Obviously, you feel for all those impacted by this, but people really need to stop using these tragedies as cover for not dealing with the real problem.

The NRA donated $51 million to Trump and five other senators in the last election cycle, WAKE UP!!!

Yup. Lawmakers need to stop saying these frequent mass shootings are isolated incidents and brush it off that way. There's been a string of these things. While the motivations may not be connected, the methods are. They're not isolated incidents. They're a pattern.
"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

Offline Nik the Trik

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Re: Vegas Tragedy
« Reply #4 on: October 02, 2017, 08:55:51 PM »

I know it's awful to say because physically it's nearer to us and we share so much of a culture with the United States but it's harder and harder not to become inured to things like this as they keep happening and nothing is done to prevent them sort of in the same way we've largely, as a world, become inured to wars in the Middle East or starvation in Africa.

Or at least, news, please stop saying things like these shootings are "incomprehensible". They're not. They happen pretty frequently and we more or less know how and why.
Give a man the reputation of an early riser and he can sleep 'til noon
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Offline Arn

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Re: Vegas Tragedy
« Reply #5 on: October 03, 2017, 05:10:34 AM »

Or at least, news, please stop saying things like these shootings are "incomprehensible". They're not. They happen pretty frequently and we more or less know how and why.

Heard a stat quoted on BBC News last night that in the USA in the first 275 days of this year, there were spree killings (4 deaths or more) on 273 days.
I Saw Jay McClement Score.

Offline L K

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Re: Vegas Tragedy
« Reply #6 on: October 03, 2017, 06:04:52 AM »
One of the sad things is Puerto Rico will be ignored by the news now.  Something unavoidable that causes many deaths and illness.

I feel horrible for the families of the fallen in Vegas but their deaths were preventable.  Instead people will rush out and buy more guns in response to this.

Offline Zee

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Re: Vegas Tragedy
« Reply #7 on: October 03, 2017, 10:50:22 AM »
One of the sad things is Puerto Rico will be ignored by the news now.  Something unavoidable that causes many deaths and illness.

I feel horrible for the families of the fallen in Vegas but their deaths were preventable.  Instead people will rush out and buy more guns in response to this.

I've never understood the gun culture in the U.S.  I'm soon to be 49 years old and I've never held a gun in my life.  I don't think I'm missing anything.

Offline Bates

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Re: Vegas Tragedy
« Reply #8 on: October 03, 2017, 02:37:33 PM »
That's two of us unless you count my BS gun after a few pops!!!  I can't understand how a Country can't see that this culture needs a change??  In my US travels I take with Americans from all over,
 we talk about Politics, we talk about healthcare , and we talk about guns.  Everything goes rather normal until we get to guns with one of the US's 2nd Amendment folks, then you just stop the conversation as it's going off the rails quickly.
One of the sad things is Puerto Rico will be ignored by the news now.  Something unavoidable that causes many deaths and illness.

I feel horrible for the families of the fallen in Vegas but their deaths were preventable.  Instead people will rush out and buy more guns in response to this.

I've never understood the gun culture in the U.S.  I'm soon to be 49 years old and I've never held a gun in my life.  I don't think I'm missing anything.

Offline Chris

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Re: Vegas Tragedy
« Reply #9 on: October 03, 2017, 02:38:57 PM »
I've never understood the gun culture in the U.S.  I'm soon to be 49 years old and I've never held a gun in my life.  I don't think I'm missing anything.
I don't understand it either, and I've been a US citizen for all of my 55 years. I grew up in a suburban area (outside of NYC) and no one had guns. However...more and more, I'm thinking that becoming armed in the US is a good idea. Not because of events like Las Vegas, but because I think there is an increasing chance that civil order is going to break down in my lifetime. Either someone is going to take out the power grid and throw society into chaos, or the radical right wingers are going to attempt to stage a civil war. And they have all the guns.

This recent event has really affected me like no other, even the Sandy Hook school shooting. I think it's a combination of the sheer size and number of dead/wounded, along with the rhetoric I've seen on-line in response. Within hours people were already labeling this a conspiracy (i.e. government sponsored, just like the 9-11 truthers) and attempting to silence any discussion of gun concerns because it was disrespectful to the victims. Yeah, I get it...don't discuss it now, don't discuss it later because guns are not part of the problem. And of course the usual responses comparing guns to knives and forks and how if we restrict guns, we have to restrict those kitchen utensils because they can be used as weapons.

I'm completely frustrated and fed up (and depressed) with this country right now and I don't see any hope of progress on this issue. Never thought I'd be considering moving to another country, but I see it as more likely every day.

Can I move to Canada? I've been a big Leafs fan my whole life...

Offline Zee

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Re: Vegas Tragedy
« Reply #10 on: October 03, 2017, 02:54:35 PM »
I've never understood the gun culture in the U.S.  I'm soon to be 49 years old and I've never held a gun in my life.  I don't think I'm missing anything.
I don't understand it either, and I've been a US citizen for all of my 55 years. I grew up in a suburban area (outside of NYC) and no one had guns. However...more and more, I'm thinking that becoming armed in the US is a good idea. Not because of events like Las Vegas, but because I think there is an increasing chance that civil order is going to break down in my lifetime. Either someone is going to take out the power grid and throw society into chaos, or the radical right wingers are going to attempt to stage a civil war. And they have all the guns.

This recent event has really affected me like no other, even the Sandy Hook school shooting. I think it's a combination of the sheer size and number of dead/wounded, along with the rhetoric I've seen on-line in response. Within hours people were already labeling this a conspiracy (i.e. government sponsored, just like the 9-11 truthers) and attempting to silence any discussion of gun concerns because it was disrespectful to the victims. Yeah, I get it...don't discuss it now, don't discuss it later because guns are not part of the problem. And of course the usual responses comparing guns to knives and forks and how if we restrict guns, we have to restrict those kitchen utensils because they can be used as weapons.

I'm completely frustrated and fed up (and depressed) with this country right now and I don't see any hope of progress on this issue. Never thought I'd be considering moving to another country, but I see it as more likely every day.

Can I move to Canada? I've been a big Leafs fan my whole life...

I sense your frustration.  It's sad that anytime a tragedy happens there are people who use it for political purposes or to further their own agenda. You expect things like this to bring people together and instead it seems to divide people further apart.  I don't know where it all leads to.

Offline hockeyfan1

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Re: Vegas Tragedy
« Reply #11 on: October 04, 2017, 05:48:59 AM »
What tv talk-show host Jimmy Kimmel said:

Quote
“This morning, we have children without parents and fathers without sons, mothers without daughters. We lost two police officers. We lost a nurse from Tennessee. A special-ed teacher from a local school here in Manhattan Beach. It’s the kind of thing that makes you want to throw up or give up. It’s too much to even process — all these devastated families who now have to live with this pain forever because one person with a violent and insane voice in his head managed to stockpile a collection of high-powered rifles and use them to shoot people.”

“There are a lot of things we can do about it. But we don’t, which is interesting. Because when someone with a beard attacks us, we tap phones, we invoke travel bans, we build walls, we take every possible precaution to make sure it doesn’t happen again. But when an American buys a gun and kills other Americans, then there’s nothing we can do about that. And the Second Amendment, I guess, our forefathers wanted us to have AK-47s is the argument, I assume.”

And this...

Quote
“President Trump is visiting Las Vegas on Wednesday. He spoke this morning, he said he was praying for those who lost their lives. You know, in February, he also signed a bill that made it easier for people with severe mental illness to buy guns legally. The Senate majority leader, Mitch McConnell, the speaker of the House, Paul Ryan, a number of other lawmakers who won’t do anything about this because the N.R.A. has their balls in a money clip, also sent their thoughts and their prayers today — which is good. They should be praying. They should be praying for God to forgive them for letting the gun lobby run this country. Because it is, it is so crazy.”

Story:
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/03/arts/television/kimmel-vegas-shooting.html

Offline Nik the Trik

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Re: Vegas Tragedy
« Reply #12 on: October 04, 2017, 07:43:30 AM »

I am a little sick of the idea of blaming guns or the NRA or Republican politicians for things like this though. That isn't to say I don't think guns aren't dangerous(I do) or that they shouldn't be better regulated in the States(they should) or even that I don't think the world would be a better place if the NRA and Republican party be banished to Mars(It would)

At some point though you just have to accept that the real problem here are the people who maintain the status quo. I'm sure it makes Jimmy Kimmel feel good to call Mitch McConnell a jerk and I'm sure it does Democratic politicians well to take a big strong anti-gun stance if they're in safe seats but the truth is that the reason there isn't strong gun control legislation being passed is that there's a huge amount of Americans who don't care enough about it and a huge amount on the wrong side of the issue here.

The NRA doesn't spend a ton of money on lobbying. Definitely not compared to other industries. Why? Because they know they don't have to. They know that people vote to keep their guns. Does it make people like McConnell and Ryan craven and cowardly if they stick to the party line? Sure. But the people to blame for McConnell and Ryan are the 56% of Kentucky Senate voters who voted for McConnell and the 65% of people in Ryan's district who electd him.

It's easy for Kimmel(and this is true of a lot of late night hosts, even the more political ones) to say McConnell is to blame. But what they never do is say that a good portion of the audience they're trying to get is to blame. Because that's bad for business. Politicians like Chris Murphy or anyone running nationally for the Democrats will never say that a huge chunk of the American population and their voting habits are responsible for these tragedies because that's not good politics.

I'm reminded about something Bill Maher said when Jimmy Kimmel was in the news about his son's surgery and Kimmel's monologue included something along the lines of "All of us, Democrat and Republican, can agree that if a child is sick then they shouldn't be denied healthcare because of how much money their parents have" and Maher said, no, that's not something Democrats and Republicans agree on. That's the whole substance of the health care debate. To pretend otherwise is to reduce politics to just petty squabbles between two equally culpable and irresponsible groups.

But politics matter. Votes matter. And until actual people are held responsible for the choices they make, all we're going to hear after these tragedies are empty posturing.
Give a man the reputation of an early riser and he can sleep 'til noon
-Mark Twain

Offline AlmosGirl

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Re: Vegas Tragedy
« Reply #13 on: October 04, 2017, 12:36:00 PM »
One of the sad things is Puerto Rico will be ignored by the news now.  Something unavoidable that causes many deaths and illness.

I feel horrible for the families of the fallen in Vegas but their deaths were preventable.  Instead people will rush out and buy more guns in response to this.

I've never understood the gun culture in the U.S.  I'm soon to be 49 years old and I've never held a gun in my life.  I don't think I'm missing anything.

I grew up in Newfoundland. My dad hunted but he never kept any guns in our house. They were always locked up out of the house. They had somewhere in the community where people could keep their guns.

My husband is a police officer. Never brings his gun home unless he absolutely needs it. Maybe 1 or 2 times a year. Separate safe for the gun and separate safe for the bullets. Not even in the same rooms. And on that rare occasion that he has to bring it home, it bothers me. I've never been a gun person and I just don't understand how it's like a cell phone to some people. Boggles my mind.

And sad sad time in Vegas. Sympathies and condolences to all the families that lost loved ones and all the people injured.

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Re: Vegas Tragedy
« Reply #13 on: October 04, 2017, 12:36:00 PM »