Author Topic: Media Thread  (Read 2635 times)

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Online Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate

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Re: Media Thread
« Reply #150 on: October 23, 2017, 07:04:47 PM »
That's a pretty aggro response.

Some people get very angry when even the suggestion of them opening their wallet comes up, probably a guilty conscience.

You are quite right.  In fact, they are precisely those people who didn't just post a comment saying that quality information comes with a price tag.

Offline Significantly Insignificant

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Re: Media Thread
« Reply #151 on: October 23, 2017, 08:02:40 PM »
So I got a question for you. Who read the Mirtle article about the Leafs today?

If a colleague of yours sent that too you, and that colleague is a Sens fan, how would you take that?

"Progress lies not in enhancing what is, but in advancing toward what will be. - Khalil Gibran

Offline Nik the Trik

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Re: Media Thread
« Reply #152 on: October 24, 2017, 07:23:41 AM »
That's a good point and while the Leafs young team have certainly made it easier to generally have a mostly positive outlook, the Montreal side of The Athletic has seemed to be at least somewhat critical of what is going on there.

That's not really what I meant. Being critical of a team that seems to be on the wrong track, like Montreal, is pretty safe I think. Most habs fans are probably on board with taking shots at Bergevin and the players and while that may cost a reporter some friendliness with sources(and to be sure the Elliotte Friedman/Chris Johnston style "insider" reporting is its own ball of wax) I don't think it would upset a fanbase.

I'm talking about the issues that are really divisive among a fanbase. Take something like stadium financing or, maybe more pointedly, a Patrick Kane-type situation. If you're aiming to sign up all fans, can you take a strong editorial position on an issue that splits a fanbase?

Because for all of the Tech-Bro bluster about disrupting the idea of the traditional newsroom, that is one of the many dilemmas that modern newspapers ran into. Take any suitably divisive issue and either you have a strong editorial take, in which case you risk alienating readers who come down on one side or the other, or you don't in which case you risk alienating people who think an absence of an editorial stance is in a position of its own.

People refusing to read news from an ideological bent(or even perceived bent) that in anyway challenges their own preconceived notions is one of the things that drove news readership down(or splintered it, anyway). I don't know how any media organization can put off that reality indefinitely.
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Online herman

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Re: Media Thread
« Reply #153 on: October 24, 2017, 09:23:15 AM »
Because for all of the Tech-Bro bluster about disrupting the idea of the traditional newsroom, that is one of the many dilemmas that modern newspapers ran into. Take any suitably divisive issue and either you have a strong editorial take, in which case you risk alienating readers who come down on one side or the other, or you don't in which case you risk alienating people who think an absence of an editorial stance is in a position of its own.

This is the crux of the issue for many news outlets in general, let alone sports sections, but they tend to be better equipped to handle it (actual journalism). I don't see The Athletic tackling it systematically anytime soon with their focus on growth and sustainability. That's the sort of risk people can take after they have tenure.

What The Athletic seems to want to disrupt is the click/ad-revenue driven decision making that has permeated newspapers as they try to find a model to adapt to the way people consume their news/media nowadays. I do hope they can one day get to the sort of independent investigative journalism you're referring to, Nik.

Online WhatIfGodWasALeaf

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Re: Media Thread
« Reply #154 on: October 24, 2017, 09:40:47 AM »
That's a good point and while the Leafs young team have certainly made it easier to generally have a mostly positive outlook, the Montreal side of The Athletic has seemed to be at least somewhat critical of what is going on there.

That's not really what I meant. Being critical of a team that seems to be on the wrong track, like Montreal, is pretty safe I think. Most habs fans are probably on board with taking shots at Bergevin and the players and while that may cost a reporter some friendliness with sources(and to be sure the Elliotte Friedman/Chris Johnston style "insider" reporting is its own ball of wax) I don't think it would upset a fanbase.

I'm talking about the issues that are really divisive among a fanbase. Take something like stadium financing or, maybe more pointedly, a Patrick Kane-type situation. If you're aiming to sign up all fans, can you take a strong editorial position on an issue that splits a fanbase?

Because for all of the Tech-Bro bluster about disrupting the idea of the traditional newsroom, that is one of the many dilemmas that modern newspapers ran into. Take any suitably divisive issue and either you have a strong editorial take, in which case you risk alienating readers who come down on one side or the other, or you don't in which case you risk alienating people who think an absence of an editorial stance is in a position of its own.

People refusing to read news from an ideological bent(or even perceived bent) that in anyway challenges their own preconceived notions is one of the things that drove news readership down(or splintered it, anyway). I don't know how any media organization can put off that reality indefinitely.


Thanks for elaborating Nik, it'll be interesting to see how it plays out.

What would be your solution out of curiosity?

Is it possible to grow a business and maintain editorial integrity on the level you mentioned?

If you don't have the time to go through it all, I understand.

Offline Nik the Trik

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Re: Media Thread
« Reply #155 on: October 24, 2017, 09:47:21 AM »
What The Athletic seems to want to disrupt is the click/ad-revenue driven decision making that has permeated newspapers as they try to find a model to adapt to the way people consume their news/media nowadays. I do hope they can one day get to the sort of independent investigative journalism you're referring to, Nik.

I might be splitting hairs here but I don't really think what I'm talking about is strictly journalism(and it definitely isn't investigative). I think, you know, having an opinion on say the Ray Rice situation or something similar that might crop up in the future isn't really something you need to dig into. It's a complicated question that sports media can't ignore but I don't know you'll ever arrive at a definitive answer through reporting. It's something you have to stick your neck out a little on.

Maybe it's just me but after people got over Mather's desire to crush his enemies and hear the lamentation of their women I think the reaction to the NYT article settled into a slightly more interesting question which is whether or not the guys at the head of the Athletic are really in it for the long haul. There was something about the way they described their business model that made me think of Amazon. The whole "Get as big as you can as fast as you can by cornering a market and worry about profitability later" thing worries people a bit because of the many, many failed attempts to really turn a profit via a subscription model for journalism. I think some people think that it looks like what these guys are doing are building a bubble of of a subscriber base by giving them a ton of content without any ads so that they'll have an attractive asset to sell and let turning the Athletic into a profitable, sustainable venture be an issue for whoever they eventually sell the company to.

Either way, and this is me sticking my neck way out here, I don't think yesterday was great for them.
Give a man the reputation of an early riser and he can sleep 'til noon
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Online herman

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Re: Media Thread
« Reply #156 on: October 24, 2017, 10:03:37 AM »
I might be splitting hairs here but I don't really think what I'm talking about is strictly journalism(and it definitely isn't investigative). I think, you know, having an opinion on say the Ray Rice situation or something similar that might crop up in the future isn't really something you need to dig into. It's a complicated question that sports media can't ignore but I don't know you'll ever arrive at a definitive answer through reporting. It's something you have to stick your neck out a little on.

Ah, that's my misread and not your over-specificity. If they don't do it on their articles, the authors (at least the ones I follow more closely), definitely do take stands with regards to their subject matter (Lupul, Corrado, Robidas, Leivo, Michalek, Laich) but so far they have been soft topics.

Offline Nik the Trik

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Re: Media Thread
« Reply #157 on: October 24, 2017, 10:11:08 AM »
Thanks for elaborating Nik, it'll be interesting to see how it plays out.

What would be your solution out of curiosity?

Is it possible to grow a business and maintain editorial integrity on the level you mentioned?

I think I would have said yes up until recently but post-Gawker I have no idea. Which, for what it's worth, I think was driving a lot of the reaction to the article yesterday. The perception being that one of the few success stories of independent journalism was brought down because a Silicon Valley Billionaire had a vendetta against them and then you had people from a similar background hinting that they doing this with an adversarial approach to other outlets was always going to ruffle feathers.

I guess I still think you can start and grow a journalism venture based on good work but where I have doubts is whether you can grow it at a rate that would please venture capital firms. To the extent that it's sustainable is anyone's guess. Like I said to Herman though, yesterday's article really made me question whether long term sustainability is really the goal for the people in charge right now.

But that said they seem to be selling a product some people want for a price those people are willing to pay so...enjoy the ride I suppose. Grantland wasn't ultimately sustainable but it was fun while it lasted.
Give a man the reputation of an early riser and he can sleep 'til noon
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Offline Nik the Trik

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Re: Media Thread
« Reply #158 on: October 27, 2017, 03:27:47 PM »

TSN has cancelled The Reporters which is sad for me. I haven't watched the show in a while and I don't think it was ever as good as ESPN's The Sports Reporters(mainly because they kept Steve Simmons around) but guys like Hodge, Farber, Arthur and some others were good and it used to be a pretty regular part of my Sunday mornings.
Give a man the reputation of an early riser and he can sleep 'til noon
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Online herman

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Re: Media Thread
« Reply #159 on: October 31, 2017, 01:42:51 PM »

Colby of the House Armstrong, First of His Name, the Retired Hockey Player, Analyst of Hockey at Sportsnet Ontario, Breaker-downer of Game Tape, and Knower of Jon Snow.

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Re: Media Thread
« Reply #160 on: November 02, 2017, 04:53:00 PM »
Craig Custance has a new podcast called The Full 60, where he spends an hour talking to hockey people about whatever topic and its some fun curtain peeling.

The latest episode is with John Chayka, GM of the Arizona Coyotes, on his approach to the rebuild.

Im at the part where hes talking about how they interviewed for their head coach this season. He had his analytics/video teams whip up a team breakdown for each of the finalists (similar to how a coaching staff with analyze an upcoming opponent) and point out issues and break downs that occurred in that coachs previous tenure to see how they would respond and approach solutions and which coach had a growth mindset.
« Last Edit: November 02, 2017, 04:54:57 PM by herman »

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Re: Media Thread
« Reply #160 on: November 02, 2017, 04:53:00 PM »