Author Topic: Media Thread  (Read 2602 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Online herman

  • All Star
  • *****
  • Posts: 7801
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Media Thread
« Reply #30 on: September 05, 2017, 12:08:26 PM »
www.twitter.com/mike_p_johnson/status/905080201436155904

!!!

Offline Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate

  • Sittler Status
  • ******
  • Posts: 12174
    • View Profile
Re: Media Thread
« Reply #31 on: September 05, 2017, 12:11:58 PM »
Didn't Grantland (or whatever it was called) try this model already?  Or was that free?

Online Peter D.

  • Global Moderator
  • Veteran
  • *****
  • Posts: 1697
    • View Profile
Re: Media Thread
« Reply #32 on: September 05, 2017, 12:12:08 PM »
I'm not sure I see the irony. 
a)  Most of them lost their jobs because those outlets providing free content could no longer afford to pay them.  ie, Revenue problem. 
b)  In a lot of cases, these writers were also constrained by the limitations on newspaper writing (deadlines for print, word count limits, etc) or free-content websites (ie, need to drive the clicks to generate ad revenue). 

These writers, almost all of them, have said in their "why I'm joining the athletic" articles that it was time to try a new model (subscriber revenue vs ad revenue) and its exciting to them that they don't have the above mentioned limitations on their writing.

Basically what I'm getting at is that if people weren't paying to subscribe to these outlets before to read these writers, which not doing so led to them being let go, why would I do so now? 

Maybe it's just me not particularly latching onto any writers before that I feel I would do so now, even with more free reign and under a different format.   

Offline Nik the Trik

  • Sittler Status
  • ******
  • Posts: 21710
  • Some Guy On a Message Board
    • View Profile
Re: Media Thread
« Reply #33 on: September 05, 2017, 12:12:49 PM »
It basically comes down to tastes, which, for me, the Athletic is fulfilling: deep beats, analytics dives, video/play structure breakdowns, and sprinkled with behind-the-curtain peeks at management/players. They get the press access that the other (free) blogs I follow don't always get firsthand, and the freedom to actually write about it.

Some of those other outlets have that access, but the focus is different (still interesting, but not something I'd pursue outright), and thus live on my periphery.

Yeah, I agree. To some extent that's sort of my larger question. You and I, I think it's fair to say, are both pretty big Leafs/Hockey fans. You seem slightly more interested in the X's and O's than I am(although that interests me to a degree) whereas I guess I'm more interested in looking at the larger societal frameworks that it all represents(although I'm sure you have opinions on public stadium financing too).

So I agree that the Athletic seems to be doing a job in speaking to what you want and, to be fair, they have a lot of good writers who I liked reading for free. Moreover I know that if they went out and hired writers who tend to speak more to my side of things like Tommy Craggs or Diana Moskovitz or Don Van Natta Jr. then a lot of people on your side of the fence would see it as an unwelcome intrusion of the serious into what is, for them, largely a recreational pasttime.

So, that, I guess is my larger question. Whether or not the Athletic can be successful long term speaking to a narrow subset of a subset of sports fans. I mean, best of luck to them, I think it's a worthwhile endeavour even if I kind of think it subtly ends up being pro-a lot of the things I don't like.
Give a man the reputation of an early riser and he can sleep 'til noon
-Mark Twain

Offline Nik the Trik

  • Sittler Status
  • ******
  • Posts: 21710
  • Some Guy On a Message Board
    • View Profile
Re: Media Thread
« Reply #34 on: September 05, 2017, 12:14:51 PM »
Didn't Grantland (or whatever it was called) try this model already?  Or was that free?

I'm fairly sure Grantland was always free and, although I can't remember the specifics, i seem to remember Bill Simmons or someone saying that while they occasionally looked at subscription models all of their market research said they just couldn't get enough people to pay.

And Grantland, silly as it was sometimes, was an exceptional collection of talent.
Give a man the reputation of an early riser and he can sleep 'til noon
-Mark Twain

Offline Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate

  • Sittler Status
  • ******
  • Posts: 12174
    • View Profile
Re: Media Thread
« Reply #35 on: September 05, 2017, 12:19:41 PM »
Didn't Grantland (or whatever it was called) try this model already?  Or was that free?

I'm fairly sure Grantland was always free and, although I can't remember the specifics, i seem to remember Bill Simmons or someone saying that while they occasionally looked at subscription models all of their market research said they just couldn't get enough people to pay.

And Grantland, silly as it was sometimes, was an exceptional collection of talent.

Thanks.  I guess I never will understand how some of these very famous internet firms can run up huge red ink (at least for their first few years) and still survive.  Like Netflix, apparently.

FWIW I think the Athletic is right to charge.  It's really pernicious that people think writers ought to provide content for free.  The problem is not just digital, it pervades the traditional publishing world (where the royalties, never large except for the superstars, have shrunk to an insultingly low level).  In the UK the main professional writers' trade group is really pressing this issue right now.

Offline Coco-puffs

  • Rookie
  • ***
  • Posts: 878
  • TMLfans Rocks!
    • View Profile
Re: Media Thread
« Reply #36 on: September 05, 2017, 12:21:10 PM »
I'm not sure I see the irony. 
a)  Most of them lost their jobs because those outlets providing free content could no longer afford to pay them.  ie, Revenue problem. 
b)  In a lot of cases, these writers were also constrained by the limitations on newspaper writing (deadlines for print, word count limits, etc) or free-content websites (ie, need to drive the clicks to generate ad revenue). 

These writers, almost all of them, have said in their "why I'm joining the athletic" articles that it was time to try a new model (subscriber revenue vs ad revenue) and its exciting to them that they don't have the above mentioned limitations on their writing.

Basically what I'm getting at is that if people weren't paying to subscribe to these outlets before to read these writers, which not doing so led to them being let go, why would I do so now? 

Maybe it's just me not particularly latching onto any writers before that I feel I would do so now, even with more free reign and under a different format.   

Well, I never subscribed to ESPN Insider because the content wasn't focused enough on the Leafs/Raptors/Jays etc.  The rest of the writers came from free outlets, so your comment only applies to a small percentage of their writing team.

Also, I'm not particularly "latched" to any writer in particular- but the content I've seen from Bourne, Dellow, Dom, etc has been very good and I look forward to their articles now.  I am happy to pay them more directly for their work.

Offline Nik the Trik

  • Sittler Status
  • ******
  • Posts: 21710
  • Some Guy On a Message Board
    • View Profile
Re: Media Thread
« Reply #37 on: September 05, 2017, 12:27:31 PM »
Thanks.  I guess I never will understand how some of these very famous internet firms can run up huge red ink (at least for their first few years) and still survive.  Like Netflix, apparently.

Step 1: Get really, really big
Step 2: ?
Step 3: Profit!

Which, to be fair, seems to have worked out pretty well for our new corporate overlords at Amazon.
Give a man the reputation of an early riser and he can sleep 'til noon
-Mark Twain

Online herman

  • All Star
  • *****
  • Posts: 7801
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Media Thread
« Reply #38 on: September 05, 2017, 12:45:57 PM »
By the by, if you're looking for some Justin Bourne content but aren't subscribed to the Athletic, he goes over many of the same topics in the latest Leafs Geeks Podcast: https://theleafsnation.com/2017/09/04/the-leafs-geeks-podcast-episode-57-justin-bourne/

Offline Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate

  • Sittler Status
  • ******
  • Posts: 12174
    • View Profile
Re: Media Thread
« Reply #39 on: September 05, 2017, 12:51:06 PM »
Thanks.  I guess I never will understand how some of these very famous internet firms can run up huge red ink (at least for their first few years) and still survive.  Like Netflix, apparently.

Step 1: Get really, really big
Step 2: ?
Step 3: Profit!

Which, to be fair, seems to have worked out pretty well for our new corporate INSECToverlords at Amazon.

Friendly amendment.

Somebody had to float them in the early days, I guess.  I distinctly remember incredulous stories wondering how they kept going without making any profit.

Offline Zee

  • All Star
  • *****
  • Posts: 7614
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Media Thread
« Reply #40 on: September 05, 2017, 12:55:19 PM »
www.twitter.com/mike_p_johnson/status/905080201436155904

!!!

Does this mean that Patrick O'Sullivan is off Leafs lunch?  That guy was difficult to listen to.

Offline Bender

  • Veteran
  • ****
  • Posts: 4173
  • Gender: Male
  • Hot diggity daffodil!
    • View Profile
Re: Media Thread
« Reply #41 on: September 05, 2017, 01:34:47 PM »
Are they able to pay all these people?  Seems to be growing quite quickly.

I'm skeptical about The Athletic model.  Cobble a bunch of former writers together who mostly were laid off because people don't want to pay for content these days, to write for a site that forces people to pay for content. 

I'd love to know how The Athletic is able to pay all these people a more than reasonable salary they're accustomed to..
Well, here's my rationale for paying for the Athletic: Most of my favourite writers have either jumped ship or have been laid off from traditional papers. I still want quality content from quality writers (not slagging PPP or MLHS... But I like these writers more - enough more that I'm willing to pay a subscription). As well there's some non Leafs coverage that is also high quality that I can access if I so choose.

Maybe they're all taking a pay cut and their salaries will scale with growth, maybe they're paid a portion in internal share ownership, no idea. But so far the model seems to have enough traction or these people wouldn't jump ship.

Sent from my SM-G935W8 using Tapatalk

"They say you can judge a man by the company he keeps. So here is the professor's oldest friend, a grotesque, stinking lobster." - Bender

Online herman

  • All Star
  • *****
  • Posts: 7801
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Media Thread
« Reply #42 on: September 05, 2017, 04:19:43 PM »
Yeah, I agree. To some extent that's sort of my larger question. You and I, I think it's fair to say, are both pretty big Leafs/Hockey fans. You seem slightly more interested in the X's and O's than I am(although that interests me to a degree) whereas I guess I'm more interested in looking at the larger societal frameworks that it all represents(although I'm sure you have opinions on public stadium financing too).

So I agree that the Athletic seems to be doing a job in speaking to what you want and, to be fair, they have a lot of good writers who I liked reading for free. Moreover I know that if they went out and hired writers who tend to speak more to my side of things like Tommy Craggs or Diana Moskovitz or Don Van Natta Jr. then a lot of people on your side of the fence would see it as an unwelcome intrusion of the serious into what is, for them, largely a recreational pasttime.

So, that, I guess is my larger question. Whether or not the Athletic can be successful long term speaking to a narrow subset of a subset of sports fans. I mean, best of luck to them, I think it's a worthwhile endeavour even if I kind of think it subtly ends up being pro-a lot of the things I don't like.

We've got a lot of overlap, but I'll be first to admit that the investigative journalism of the intersection between sports and the real world are normally low on my priority list (unless it drifts into salacious territory). I'm interested in expanding and learning though.

Would you happen to have a primer list of such writings to whet my (and probably others') appetite?

Online herman

  • All Star
  • *****
  • Posts: 7801
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Media Thread
« Reply #43 on: September 05, 2017, 04:55:04 PM »
Does this mean that Patrick O'Sullivan is off Leafs lunch?  That guy was difficult to listen to.

I'm trying get through the first 10-15 min to see if they talk at all about the hosting logistics. It sounds like a fairly permanent addition at least to TSN in general, which also opens up the potential for Johnson to double duty as in-game analysis.

Offline Arn

  • Veteran
  • ****
  • Posts: 2820
  • Gender: Male
  • Belfast Giant, Toronto Maple Leaf
    • View Profile
    • Kingdom of the Giants
Re: Media Thread
« Reply #44 on: September 05, 2017, 05:01:44 PM »
I'm skeptical about The Athletic model.  Cobble a bunch of former writers together who mostly were laid off because people don't want to pay for content these days, to write for a site that forces people to pay for content. 

I'd love to know how The Athletic is able to pay all these people a more than reasonable salary they're accustomed to..

I guess the thinking is that unlike something like ESPN Insider this is wide ranging while at the same time very focused to sports fans. Also, I imagine that after the layoffs made by newspapers and places like ESPN this is an appeal to a certain kind of fan who really likes a particular type of traditional sports coverage at the same time that sort of coverage is rapidly disappearing.

A lot of sports sites that I have used for many years have evolved. One i can think of that used to produce lots of really good written articles was Cricinfo, a global cricket website. Like baseball cricket is a sport that produces some really good prose.

Over the last few years I have noted that when you see an article headline and click on it there's a good chance you'll get some 4 minute video of a couple of random people talking about it. I barely use that site any more. I miss the great written content.

I've never been tempted to subscribe to a sport website before. The Athletic is certainly the first to really tempt me and especially now more so that they've expanded to several cities.

I hope it works out. There is a space for real proper in depth prose that I don't think you get now broadsheet newspaper have died off and online news is very much video sound bite focused
I Saw Jay McClement Score.

TMLfans.ca

Re: Media Thread
« Reply #44 on: September 05, 2017, 05:01:44 PM »