Author Topic: Drew Doughty  (Read 942 times)

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Offline herman

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Drew Doughty
« on: September 11, 2017, 10:04:24 AM »
« Last Edit: September 11, 2017, 10:05:59 AM by herman »

Offline herman

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Re: Drew Doughty
« Reply #1 on: September 11, 2017, 10:10:11 AM »
If both Doughty and Karlsson hit UFA (at the same time)... hoo boy.

Offline Zee

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Re: Drew Doughty
« Reply #2 on: September 11, 2017, 10:18:33 AM »
If both Doughty and Karlsson hit UFA (at the same time)... hoo boy.

I didn't realize Karlsson was coming up to a contract so soon.  I can only imagine what kind of money he could command.  Ottawa is in some trouble.

Online bustaheims

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Re: Drew Doughty
« Reply #3 on: September 11, 2017, 12:08:49 PM »
If both Doughty and Karlsson hit UFA (at the same time)... hoo boy.

I don't see Karlsson hitting the market - Ottawa will throw everything at him, and they'll likely be good enough for him to see a possibility of success there. Doughty, on the other hand . . . LA's situation is not good, and could very easily get much worse over the next two year. He may very well consider the possibility of looking to play somewhere with a legit shot going forward. It's unlikely, but more likely than Karlsson.
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Offline Nik the Trik

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Re: Drew Doughty
« Reply #4 on: September 11, 2017, 12:16:03 PM »
I don't see Karlsson hitting the market - Ottawa will throw everything at him, and they'll likely be good enough for him to see a possibility of success there.

I don't think retaining Karlsson will be an issue either, teams seem more or less willing to give big time stars what they want salary wise so unless Karlsson just doesn't like Ottawa(which he's given no indication of) he'll probably be willing to stay put.

The issue in Ottawa is that between then and now they're also going to have to give big raises to Stone and Turris and their really bad Ryan and Phaneuf contracts don't come off the books until later. If Karlsson really wants to get paid he could potentially double his current salary and the Sens may still be in a position where they're operating with an internal cap.

Again, I think they'd make room for Karlsson but that window on their current group might be slimmer than you'd think.
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Offline herman

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Re: Drew Doughty
« Reply #5 on: September 11, 2017, 12:36:56 PM »
Would you say the situation with Karlsson is similar to Tavares'?

Middling team with one or two hits of success in the past decade, but look to be spinning their tires. They're willing to splurge on their one superstar, but what are they doing to surround them with playoff caliber talent?

Offline Zee

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Re: Drew Doughty
« Reply #6 on: September 11, 2017, 12:47:27 PM »
I don't see Karlsson hitting the market - Ottawa will throw everything at him, and they'll likely be good enough for him to see a possibility of success there.

I don't think retaining Karlsson will be an issue either, teams seem more or less willing to give big time stars what they want salary wise so unless Karlsson just doesn't like Ottawa(which he's given no indication of) he'll probably be willing to stay put.

The issue in Ottawa is that between then and now they're also going to have to give big raises to Stone and Turris and their really bad Ryan and Phaneuf contracts don't come off the books until later. If Karlsson really wants to get paid he could potentially double his current salary and the Sens may still be in a position where they're operating with an internal cap.

Again, I think they'd make room for Karlsson but that window on their current group might be slimmer than you'd think.

I have no doubt they'll sign Karlsson to whatever he wants, but given that they're never going to be cap spending team but instead have their own internal number they'll stick to, it's going to be very difficult to put together a quality lineup once Karlsson eats up a huge chunk of their number.  Unless Melynyk decides to open up and spend more, they'll have Karlsson + a lot of plugs.

Offline Nik the Trik

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Re: Drew Doughty
« Reply #7 on: September 11, 2017, 12:49:12 PM »
Would you say the situation with Karlsson is similar to Tavares'?

Middling team with one or two hits of success in the past decade, but look to be spinning their tires. They're willing to splurge on their one superstar, but what are they doing to surround them with playoff caliber talent?

I suppose so. Although I think the Senators have actually done reasonably well building a competitive team without bottoming out. I think they've got a pretty good group of prospects still coming up so they very well may be able to cut ties with some of their current players for salary reasons and still be relatively competitive.

That said, last year's flukey run aside, they're still faced with what all mid-tier teams are faced with even if they have as big a star as Karlsson. Can you win without multiple big deal stars and, because it's very hard to make the case that you can, how do you get them outside of the draft?
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Offline Nik the Trik

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Re: Drew Doughty
« Reply #8 on: September 11, 2017, 12:58:37 PM »
I have no doubt they'll sign Karlsson to whatever he wants, but given that they're never going to be cap spending team but instead have their own internal number they'll stick to, it's going to be very difficult to put together a quality lineup once Karlsson eats up a huge chunk of their number.  Unless Melynyk decides to open up and spend more, they'll have Karlsson + a lot of plugs.

I don't think Melnyk's spending is that big a deal. You're talking about a fairly small percentage of the cap that he seems to want to keep under. It certainly doesn't help, but it's ultimately probably going to amount to the difference between one pretty good free agent or so.

I really think the bigger issue there is parity. The Sens got into the playoffs last year in large part because teams like the Panthers fell off and the Lightning struggled. They made the playoff run they did with a lot of luck, a ton of help from the format and some all-world play from Karlsson but really...are they one of the top 10 rosters in hockey? They pushed Pittsburgh to 7 games after Pittsburgh had gone to war with the #1 and #4 teams in hockey but I think they, and the hockey public at large, have a false sense of how good they are.

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Offline Zee

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Re: Drew Doughty
« Reply #9 on: September 11, 2017, 02:19:47 PM »
I have no doubt they'll sign Karlsson to whatever he wants, but given that they're never going to be cap spending team but instead have their own internal number they'll stick to, it's going to be very difficult to put together a quality lineup once Karlsson eats up a huge chunk of their number.  Unless Melynyk decides to open up and spend more, they'll have Karlsson + a lot of plugs.

I don't think Melnyk's spending is that big a deal. You're talking about a fairly small percentage of the cap that he seems to want to keep under. It certainly doesn't help, but it's ultimately probably going to amount to the difference between one pretty good free agent or so.

I really think the bigger issue there is parity. The Sens got into the playoffs last year in large part because teams like the Panthers fell off and the Lightning struggled. They made the playoff run they did with a lot of luck, a ton of help from the format and some all-world play from Karlsson but really...are they one of the top 10 rosters in hockey? They pushed Pittsburgh to 7 games after Pittsburgh had gone to war with the #1 and #4 teams in hockey but I think they, and the hockey public at large, have a false sense of how good they are.

I hope you're right, I really want to see the Sens drop off.   You'll get an internet hug from me if you're right.

Offline Nik the Trik

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Re: Drew Doughty
« Reply #10 on: September 11, 2017, 02:40:50 PM »
I hope you're right, I really want to see the Sens drop off.   You'll get an internet hug from me if you're right.

To be clear, I don't know if they'll fall off to a big extent as in get worse. I'm just saying I don't think they'll ever have a season with an easier path to the playoffs and then an easier path through the playoffs than they had last year.
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Offline Zee

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Re: Drew Doughty
« Reply #11 on: September 11, 2017, 03:42:33 PM »
I hope you're right, I really want to see the Sens drop off.   You'll get an internet hug from me if you're right.

To be clear, I don't know if they'll fall off to a big extent as in get worse. I'm just saying I don't think they'll ever have a season with an easier path to the playoffs and then an easier path through the playoffs than they had last year.

You're not avoiding a hug, sorry.

Offline RedLeaf

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Re: Drew Doughty
« Reply #12 on: September 11, 2017, 04:33:19 PM »
Doughty for Marner straight up would be a real tough decision for me. I like the younger Marner better as a player. The need for a Doughty-type D man right now is more pressing. Getting the man himself in the trade and I'd likely probably pull the trigger, even at the expense of our 2nd most-gifted player (at least in my mind).
I'd make this trade, and then go hard after Tavares, providing there's enough cap space when everything shakes out.
I can't imagine a Leaf squad with the likes of Tavares, Matthews, Nylander, Doughty, Rielly & Marleau.
« Last Edit: September 11, 2017, 04:45:56 PM by RedLeaf »
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Offline Nik the Trik

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Re: Drew Doughty
« Reply #13 on: September 11, 2017, 06:35:47 PM »
Doughty for Marner straight up would be a real tough decision for me. I like the younger Marner better as a player. The need for a Doughty-type D man right now is more pressing. Getting the man himself in the trade and I'd likely probably pull the trigger, even at the expense of our 2nd most-gifted player (at least in my mind).

I know it's a hypothetical but I'd be a pretty hard no on Marner for Doughty. Chiefly because I don't think it would cost that much to get it done. I think the only way Doughty gets traded is if he's determined to leave. If he's determined to leave then LA has nothing close to the amount of leverage to demand a player like Marner and I don't see any team out there coming close to the offer.

I think if you took a package of the team's B and C level assets so, say, any two of Liljegren, Kapanen or a 1st rounder and then one of Grundstrom or Dermott or a 2nd rounder then you probably couldn't get Doughty(unless, again, he's determined to leave in which case that might do it) but the defenseman you could get + having Marner would be better than Doughty and no Marner.
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Offline Bender

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Re: Drew Doughty
« Reply #14 on: September 12, 2017, 02:58:00 AM »
Yeah and Doughty, while not old, ain't a spring chicken. I know we need D at some point but it cant come at the expense of our young core. Besides, Marner's value will only go up from here.

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Re: Drew Doughty
« Reply #14 on: September 12, 2017, 02:58:00 AM »