Author Topic: 2017-2018 NHL Thread  (Read 14694 times)

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Online bustaheims

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Re: 2017-2018 NHL Thread
« Reply #15 on: September 07, 2017, 12:57:04 PM »
In fairness to Parros, he had a clean record in terms of suspensions and fines. Not that it means a whole lot, but, he generally didn't deliver the cheap/dirty hits. He just punched faces a lot and got punched in the face a lot.
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Offline Nik the Trik

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Re: 2017-2018 NHL Thread
« Reply #16 on: September 07, 2017, 01:05:31 PM »
It asked if the NHL has ever approached someone like Marc Savard or Paul Kariya about a position in DOPS. There's probably hundreds of former NHLers that would be interested in that type of gig. Why are they continually focusing on goons and cheap shot artists?

I don't think I'd describe Quintal, Shanahan or Pronger as goons or cheapshot artists(maybe Pronger on that last one but even still, he was pretty good aside) but I do think it figures that if there's a line in the game between acceptable violence and unacceptable that you'd want a guy who flirted with that line, and understood it, rather than a guy who steered clear of it all together.
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Offline Frank E

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Re: 2017-2018 NHL Thread
« Reply #17 on: September 07, 2017, 01:15:40 PM »
In fairness to Parros, he had a clean record in terms of suspensions and fines. Not that it means a whole lot, but, he generally didn't deliver the cheap/dirty hits. He just punched faces a lot and got punched in the face a lot.

Without looking it up, I remember reading that Parros has a degree in Economics, and is a pretty sharp guy.

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Re: 2017-2018 NHL Thread
« Reply #18 on: September 07, 2017, 01:41:30 PM »
It asked if the NHL has ever approached someone like Marc Savard or Paul Kariya about a position in DOPS. There's probably hundreds of former NHLers that would be interested in that type of gig. Why are they continually focusing on goons and cheap shot artists?

I don't think I'd describe Quintal, Shanahan or Pronger as goons or cheapshot artists(maybe Pronger on that last one but even still, he was pretty good aside) but I do think it figures that if there's a line in the game between acceptable violence and unacceptable that you'd want a guy who flirted with that line, and understood it, rather than a guy who steered clear of it all together.

Interestingly, Parros has already said he wants to hire a former player that was not an enforcer/grinder type- someone who is going to give a different perspective.  Can't find the tweet/link where I read it right at the moment though.

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Re: 2017-2018 NHL Thread
« Reply #19 on: September 07, 2017, 01:51:53 PM »
I don't think I'd describe Quintal, Shanahan or Pronger as goons or cheapshot artists(maybe Pronger on that last one but even still, he was pretty good aside) but I do think it figures that if there's a line in the game between acceptable violence and unacceptable that you'd want a guy who flirted with that line, and understood it, rather than a guy who steered clear of it all together.

I think that last bit is debatable. I suppose I don't entirely see the value in what that person would bring. You'd first have to define what that line is and what makes something acceptable. Not to mention that that line will change as the culture of the game changes. I think you need a forward-thinker, first and foremost. Someone who can steer the game in a safer direction.

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Re: 2017-2018 NHL Thread
« Reply #20 on: September 07, 2017, 02:07:52 PM »
I think that last bit is debatable. I suppose I don't entirely see the value in what that person would bring. You'd first have to define what that line is and what makes something acceptable. Not to mention that that line will change as the culture of the game changes. I think you need a forward-thinker, first and foremost. Someone who can steer the game in a safer direction.

I don't know. I'm kinda with Nik here. I like the idea of having a guy who has the experience of what it's like to play a very physical game, but without having had to cross the line into cheap shots and illegal hits to be effective. There's also no reason to suggest Parros can't be a forward-thinker who can steer the game in a safer direction. If anything, someone with his history could have clearer insights into how the keep the physical aspect of the game intact while doing so.
"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

Offline Nik the Trik

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Re: 2017-2018 NHL Thread
« Reply #21 on: September 07, 2017, 03:25:56 PM »
I think that last bit is debatable. I suppose I don't entirely see the value in what that person would bring. You'd first have to define what that line is and what makes something acceptable. Not to mention that that line will change as the culture of the game changes. I think you need a forward-thinker, first and foremost. Someone who can steer the game in a safer direction.

Ok, s let's think about what sort of mitigating factors tend to go into these decisions. Typically we're not talking about the most flagrant sort of fouls there. We're talking about things like "Did the player throwing the hit have time to react to a sudden change in movement by the player who was hit" or "was the head specifically targeted". In those cases shouldn't you want someone who's intimately familiar with throwing hits? To know about angles of it and reaction time and such?
Give a man the reputation of an early riser and he can sleep 'til noon
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Offline Bill_Berg

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Re: 2017-2018 NHL Thread
« Reply #22 on: September 07, 2017, 04:42:33 PM »
I think that last bit is debatable. I suppose I don't entirely see the value in what that person would bring. You'd first have to define what that line is and what makes something acceptable. Not to mention that that line will change as the culture of the game changes. I think you need a forward-thinker, first and foremost. Someone who can steer the game in a safer direction.

Ok, s let's think about what sort of mitigating factors tend to go into these decisions. Typically we're not talking about the most flagrant sort of fouls there. We're talking about things like "Did the player throwing the hit have time to react to a sudden change in movement by the player who was hit" or "was the head specifically targeted". In those cases shouldn't you want someone who's intimately familiar with throwing hits? To know about angles of it and reaction time and such?

I do. I think these guys are better able to call those borderline hits. Not perfectly of course. I mean we see Kadri throw a hit at a guy's head or knee and he immediately says he didn't mean it, only he knows if he did or not, but he goes through that exercise as a player a few times in a career. Then when he retires, who better to determine if the next Kadri is aiming of the head or not?

If Kadri doesn't mean to hit the head, then he can relate to the player and probably pick up on things like positioning, feet movement, whatever.

If Kadri does mean to hit people in the head, then he knows the tricks and can bust other people trying to use them.

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Re: 2017-2018 NHL Thread
« Reply #23 on: September 07, 2017, 05:13:45 PM »
Ok, s let's think about what sort of mitigating factors tend to go into these decisions. Typically we're not talking about the most flagrant sort of fouls there. We're talking about things like "Did the player throwing the hit have time to react to a sudden change in movement by the player who was hit" or "was the head specifically targeted". In those cases shouldn't you want someone who's intimately familiar with throwing hits? To know about angles of it and reaction time and such?

I get what you're saying, but I have doubts as to whether or not a "hitter" like Matt Martin would really be able to provide any more insight on things such as player vulnerability than other professional hockey players who've played the game at a high level. Similarly, I don't think you need to be an elite player to become an elite coach.

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Re: 2017-2018 NHL Thread
« Reply #24 on: September 07, 2017, 05:17:28 PM »
I think that last bit is debatable. I suppose I don't entirely see the value in what that person would bring. You'd first have to define what that line is and what makes something acceptable. Not to mention that that line will change as the culture of the game changes. I think you need a forward-thinker, first and foremost. Someone who can steer the game in a safer direction.

I don't know. I'm kinda with Nik here. I like the idea of having a guy who has the experience of what it's like to play a very physical game, but without having had to cross the line into cheap shots and illegal hits to be effective. There's also no reason to suggest Parros can't be a forward-thinker who can steer the game in a safer direction. If anything, someone with his history could have clearer insights into how the keep the physical aspect of the game intact while doing so.

Just to clarify: I didn't in any way intend to suggest that I think Parros isn't qualified for the job. I was just commenting on the job qualifications. We're talking about the head of the department, hence my comment: "I think you need a forward-thinker, first and foremost"

Offline Nik the Trik

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Re: 2017-2018 NHL Thread
« Reply #25 on: September 07, 2017, 05:30:39 PM »
I get what you're saying, but I have doubts as to whether or not a "hitter" like Matt Martin would really be able to provide any more insight on things such as player vulnerability than other professional hockey players who've played the game at a high level. Similarly, I don't think you need to be an elite player to become an elite coach.

Right, I think a lot of people have compellingly made the case that the less gifted a player is the more likely they are to have to become students of the game which then translates into coaching. But nobody is saying that solely being a player who throws hits qualifies anyone for the job. Just that it's an added and important perspective when dealing with the actions of guys throwing hits.

I guess I don't see the connection because I maybe don't know what you're saying with "player vulnerability" but the examples I used are specific to guys throwing hits, not the guys getting hit. I don't think the extent to which a player is vulnerable tends to be a mitigating factor.
Give a man the reputation of an early riser and he can sleep 'til noon
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Offline Nik the Trik

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Re: 2017-2018 NHL Thread
« Reply #26 on: September 07, 2017, 06:33:32 PM »

From the "What we'll see after the next CBA" department:


I wonder if we'll see more guys follow Matthews and go to Europe for a year.
Give a man the reputation of an early riser and he can sleep 'til noon
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Re: 2017-2018 NHL Thread
« Reply #27 on: September 07, 2017, 07:00:55 PM »

From the "What we'll see after the next CBA" department:


I wonder if we'll see more guys follow Matthews and go to Europe for a year.

Interesting. Doubt we'll see much push back from the PA on that one. It also opens up more possibilities for players to go straight to the AHL after being drafted (I think).
"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

Online WhatIfGodWasALeaf

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Re: 2017-2018 NHL Thread
« Reply #28 on: September 07, 2017, 07:03:21 PM »

From the "What we'll see after the next CBA" department:


I wonder if we'll see more guys follow Matthews and go to Europe for a year.

Top five caliber players who are on the young end of the spectrum for their draft class should definitely go abroad.

They can likely make close to a million dollars abroad over 18-24 months instead of playing junior.

It's hilarious that the whole draft system hasn't been challenged in court, in Europe the Bosman rule changed the landscape of soccer by making players free agents any time they did not have a contract.

The premise was that sportsmen are normal citizens and should have the same employment conditions placed upon them as everyone else.

Ownership of rights is very archaic.

I don't think it's a perfect system, but I would think there is a middle ground that may work.

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Re: 2017-2018 NHL Thread
« Reply #29 on: September 07, 2017, 07:23:38 PM »
It's hilarious that the whole draft system hasn't been challenged in court, in Europe the Bosman rule changed the landscape of soccer by making players free agents any time they did not have a contract.

The premise was that sportsmen are normal citizens and should have the same employment conditions placed upon them as everyone else.

Ownership of rights is very archaic.

I don't think it's a perfect system, but I would think there is a middle ground that may work.

I wonder if the prevailing opinion is that the leagues would end up winning in a similar situation to MLB's antitrust exemption. That being said, I think it would probably be a worthwhile endeavour.

Honestly, though, I'm a fan of the draft, as it helps maintain a level of competitiveness - and, somewhat because of that, helps raise the entertainment level of the average NHL game. I would, however, love to see the RFA system eliminated. Give teams the rights to a sign a player to their first contract, but, that's it.
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Re: 2017-2018 NHL Thread
« Reply #29 on: September 07, 2017, 07:23:38 PM »