Author Topic: Marchenko placed on waivers, contract to be terminated  (Read 1207 times)

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Offline Bullfrog

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Re: Marchenko placed on waivers, contract to be terminated
« Reply #30 on: August 15, 2017, 12:36:01 PM »
Defensemen developing 'slower' than forwards, while technically true if the measure is GP or something like that, the deck is basically stacked against them breaking into the NHL at the same time as their cohort's forwards. Same thing with goalies to a greater degree.
....

I have no issues with anything you've just written, except to say that none of that has anything to do with the rate of development. It's basically just saying "the defense position might be harder to learn at the top level." This is still something that I don't fully agree with but would be more willing to accept.

Learning the team defensive game is challenging for all young players, forwards and defense. I suspect there's a number of factors in play: change in focus, more years of coaching, simple experience (learning on the job.) Kadri came 20th in Selke voting!

I don't know if it's a matter of defense developing later or rather GMs/coaches being more cautious with a position that can be more prominent when mistakes happen. There are four lines of forwards you can break a prospect in; only three for defense. I think that's the bigger issue.

Offline Nik the Trik

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Re: Marchenko placed on waivers, contract to be terminated
« Reply #31 on: August 15, 2017, 01:00:48 PM »

From the article:
Quote
"Contrary to popular belief, it probably doesn’t take defensemen longer to “learn” how to play at the NHL level...


I've always thought that statement to be overstated. Perhaps there's some truth to it, but I don't think development time is significantly different for the various positions.

The studies in the past have always been pretty flawed. For instance the one quoted above uses regular season points and PLUS/MINUS as the only two statistics looked at.

Yeah, unfortunately I don't think this is something that could ever definitively be stated with evidence. For most of hockey's history size/strength were attributes valued highly for defense, and it's still true to some extent today, so physical maturity was/is as much a reason to keep younger d-men out of the league as anything.

It's a little bit like the old "Keeping a player in the AHL never hurt his development" idea because, you know, there's no way to test it.
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Online herman

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Re: Marchenko placed on waivers, contract to be terminated
« Reply #32 on: August 15, 2017, 01:10:29 PM »
I have no issues with anything you've just written, except to say that none of that has anything to do with the rate of development. It's basically just saying "the defense position might be harder to learn at the top level." This is still something that I don't fully agree with but would be more willing to accept.

Learning the team defensive game is challenging for all young players, forwards and defense. I suspect there's a number of factors in play: change in focus, more years of coaching, simple experience (learning on the job.) Kadri came 20th in Selke voting!

I don't know if it's a matter of defense developing later or rather GMs/coaches being more cautious with a position that can be more prominent when mistakes happen. There are four lines of forwards you can break a prospect in; only three for defense. I think that's the bigger issue.

You're right that I didn't really address 'rate of development'.

I think we both have the same point here (correct me if I'm wrong). Development correlating directly with in-game puck touches, it seems to all come down to management and coaching staffs giving opportunity. Biases (mentioned by Nik) and a numerical disadvantage basically means defensemen are going to be held back more readily than forwards, and so their development is deemed slower as we'd be spreadsheeting by age of entry.

Offline cabber24

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Re: Marchenko placed on waivers, contract to be terminated
« Reply #33 on: August 15, 2017, 01:40:01 PM »

Re: Will Butcher

https://sports.yahoo.com/learned-will-butcher-sweepstakes-begins-140510291.html

What's happening COL? Geez, Sakic said they WOULD get him signed. Ouch.
Upon the wicked He will rain Jerseys; blue and white and burning waffles will be the portion of their cup.

Offline leafsjunkie

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Re: Marchenko placed on waivers, contract to be terminated
« Reply #34 on: August 15, 2017, 06:23:01 PM »

Re: Will Butcher

https://sports.yahoo.com/learned-will-butcher-sweepstakes-begins-140510291.html

What's happening COL? Geez, Sakic said they WOULD get him signed. Ouch.

Interesting Lupul tidbit in that article.

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Re: Marchenko placed on waivers, contract to be terminated
« Reply #34 on: August 15, 2017, 06:23:01 PM »