Author Topic: Marchenko placed on waivers, contract to be terminated  (Read 1209 times)

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Offline cabber24

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Re: Marchenko placed on waivers, contract to be terminated
« Reply #15 on: August 14, 2017, 04:47:12 PM »
I don't think they need more depth.

They may sign Butcher and give him a shot at the Marlies top 4 or Leafs 7th spot.

They have 6 guys already and that's not including any of the "blue chips" on the Marlies.

There will be a slight chance they go back to the Polak well and he and Marincin will alternate as the 7th.

If they add another piece though, I suspect it'll be a guy who improves the top 4.

Really depends on how close the two Swedes are to the NHL. If they aren't realistic options for the big club then the depth is pretty shallow. Especially for righties. If either Zaitsev or Carrick get hurt Babcock would have to use FIVE left-handed defencemen. FIVE!

I do fully expect Polak to get some sort of chance at earning a spot. Either through a PTO with the big club or with the Marlies if he can't find anywhere else to play. Or maybe Franson begs Lou hard enough for a contract.
I wonder if he will continue to do illustrations for Rober Munsch?

Early this summer Lou said not forget about the 2 Swedes they signed during a radio interview on the FAN590. I imagine these guys can at the very least be considered depth dmen.

I am ready to move on from Polak...
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Online bustaheims

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Re: Marchenko placed on waivers, contract to be terminated
« Reply #16 on: August 14, 2017, 04:54:52 PM »
I'd have to think that they're going to need a little more depth if Marchenko is out.

So that contract spot is likely to be used for some kind of NHL serviceable d-man.

I don't think they'll be in a rush to do anything with the contract spot or in terms of adding a d-man. Unless they feel an NCAA free agent has a really strong chance of cracking the NHL in the next two seasons, or a top 4 d-man is available, the type of guy they'll need to fill the spot if they're not thrilled with their existing options will be readily available on waivers at the end of training camp.
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Offline Nik the Trik

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Re: Marchenko placed on waivers, contract to be terminated
« Reply #17 on: August 14, 2017, 05:01:12 PM »
I'd have to think that they're going to need a little more depth if Marchenko is out.

So that contract spot is likely to be used for some kind of NHL serviceable d-man.

What depth was he realistically providing that couldn't be addressed via the waiver wire?
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Offline Frank E

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Re: Marchenko placed on waivers, contract to be terminated
« Reply #18 on: August 14, 2017, 05:32:10 PM »
I'd have to think that they're going to need a little more depth if Marchenko is out.

So that contract spot is likely to be used for some kind of NHL serviceable d-man.

What depth was he realistically providing that couldn't be addressed via the waiver wire?

Well, none.

But I wasn't arguing that they needed to keep him.  I was just suggesting that they'll need to add a d-man, and that addition will take up the contract spot.

Online herman

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Re: Marchenko placed on waivers, contract to be terminated
« Reply #19 on: August 14, 2017, 05:41:41 PM »
I don't think Marchenko being on the payroll was changing their mind about wanting to improve the roster. This just makes it easier.

Online WhatIfGodWasALeaf

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Re: Marchenko placed on waivers, contract to be terminated
« Reply #20 on: August 14, 2017, 05:46:46 PM »
I'm sorry, but the notion that Marchenko was providing anything, even depth, is pretty far out.

Right now they're in a spot where they have too many bodies for the Marlies on defense, it's addition by subtraction and if you can't replace his level of contribution from within, we have more problems than we thought.

Offline Nik the Trik

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Re: Marchenko placed on waivers, contract to be terminated
« Reply #21 on: August 14, 2017, 06:47:04 PM »
Well, none.

But I wasn't arguing that they needed to keep him.  I was just suggesting that they'll need to add a d-man, and that addition will take up the contract spot.

But if you can replace his "depth" via the waiver wire then why not wait until the need actually arises and do that instead of using a contract spot you may not need?
Give a man the reputation of an early riser and he can sleep 'til noon
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Offline RedLeaf

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Re: Marchenko placed on waivers, contract to be terminated
« Reply #22 on: August 14, 2017, 11:17:44 PM »
Are there any trade options for D-men with Vegas?
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Offline slapshot

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Re: Marchenko placed on waivers, contract to be terminated
« Reply #23 on: August 15, 2017, 02:47:13 AM »
Leafs defence in next 6-12 months.

Gardiner - Zaitsev
Rielly - Carrick
Hainsey - Lilijegren (going to surprise)

In 12 - 18 months

Rielly - Lilijegren (going to surprise even more)
Gardiner - Zaitsev
Dermott - Carrick

Offline hockeyfan1

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Re: Marchenko placed on waivers, contract to be terminated
« Reply #24 on: August 15, 2017, 05:55:33 AM »
Re: Will Butcher

https://sports.yahoo.com/learned-will-butcher-sweepstakes-begins-140510291.html


From the article:
Quote
"Contrary to popular belief, it probably doesn’t take defensemen longer to “learn” how to play at the NHL level...

Find that statement a bit difficult to concede.  Forwards (elite) such as Crosby, Matthews, McDavid seem to have adapted right away to NHL play.

Don't know where the author of said article gets his cue to imput his statement.  Many hockey people know that forwards, particularly elite forwards do seem more "NHL-ready" than defencemen with some exceptions.

Certainly metrics bear this out:
...why defencemen peak slightly later than forwards, because they "rely more on pattern recognition and anticipation — which improve with experience — to play a good positional game and to make good passes."

Note: article written in 2014
http://www.cbc.ca/news/when-nhl-players-peak-hockey-metrics-1.2646054

Offline Bullfrog

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Re: Marchenko placed on waivers, contract to be terminated
« Reply #25 on: August 15, 2017, 07:55:00 AM »

From the article:
Quote
"Contrary to popular belief, it probably doesn’t take defensemen longer to “learn” how to play at the NHL level...


I've always thought that statement to be overstated. Perhaps there's some truth to it, but I don't think development time is significantly different for the various positions.

Offline CarltonTheBear

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Re: Marchenko placed on waivers, contract to be terminated
« Reply #26 on: August 15, 2017, 08:50:54 AM »

From the article:
Quote
"Contrary to popular belief, it probably doesn’t take defensemen longer to “learn” how to play at the NHL level...


I've always thought that statement to be overstated. Perhaps there's some truth to it, but I don't think development time is significantly different for the various positions.

The studies in the past have always been pretty flawed. For instance the one quoted above uses regular season points and PLUS/MINUS as the only two statistics looked at.

Online herman

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Re: Marchenko placed on waivers, contract to be terminated
« Reply #27 on: August 15, 2017, 09:23:02 AM »
Defensemen developing 'slower' than forwards, while technically true if the measure is GP or something like that, the deck is basically stacked against them breaking into the NHL at the same time as their cohort's forwards. Same thing with goalies to a greater degree.

  • A team generally carries 13/14 F and 7/8 D. This in and of itself is a higher barrier of entry for defensemen if we measure their NHL capability by GP just because of opportunity.
  • It's a thing that front offices believe too, so of course their decisions will reflect the notion.
  • Playing defense is more team structure and coaching based than playing forward. This is a generalization from good young hockey players (e.g. Nylander, etc.), everyone who is good at hockey knows how to score coming up the system, to the point where defense is really only played by those who are deemed not as useful.
  • Scouting in general still has trouble measuring and projecting defensemen skills (because their performance is so team structure and coaching and teammate dependent). The draft misses make teams wary of picking defensemen high, and for some reason your draft position is held against you for many years even though it is something entirely outside your control.

Truly great players make it right out of the gate regardless of position (except for goalies, but that's more opportunity-based).

Feel free to pick these assertions apart :)

Offline CarltonTheBear

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Re: Marchenko placed on waivers, contract to be terminated
« Reply #28 on: August 15, 2017, 09:37:31 AM »
Are there any trade options for D-men with Vegas?

Vegas still has 11 (!) NHL defencemen on their team. Only one of them is waiver exempt, Shea Theodore, but he's probably one of their 6 best defencemen so it wouldn't be wise to send him down. Their plan to stockpile defencemen and try to trade them after seems to have backfired. Their problem was that only two of their defence picks were righties, and only one of them is any good.

Online herman

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Re: Marchenko placed on waivers, contract to be terminated
« Reply #29 on: August 15, 2017, 09:43:34 AM »
Are there any trade options for D-men with Vegas?

Vegas still has 11 (!) NHL defencemen on their team. Only one of them is waiver exempt, Shea Theodore, but he's probably one of their 6 best defencemen so it wouldn't be wise to send him down. Their plan to stockpile defencemen and try to trade them after seems to have backfired. Their problem was that only two of their defence picks were righties, and only one of them is any good.

Vegas' expansion draft was so stupid. Their entry draft was pretty great. Hardballing Schmidt was stupid.

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Re: Marchenko placed on waivers, contract to be terminated
« Reply #29 on: August 15, 2017, 09:43:34 AM »