Author Topic: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - General Discussion  (Read 18516 times)

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Online herman

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Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - General Discussion
« Reply #75 on: September 07, 2017, 10:54:52 AM »
https://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/2017/9/7/16253088/toronto-maple-leafs-forward-lines-leo-komarov-james-van-riemsdyk-patrick-marleau-dealine-trade

This does not get talked about enough:
Quote
Forward lineups are not a report card. They aren't a marker of status. You can't deal out players from a list of who is best down to who isn't and produce a perfect lineup. That's how you get people suggesting van Riemsdyk should play with Matthews and Nylander.

I'm not sure if it was ever conclusively determined if they'd need three pucks or just two to make that work, but the charts contained in that very story show you that van Riemsdyk is one of the highest volume shooters on the Leafs. Hooking him up with the pass-first Bozak and the pass-often Marner makes more sense than having him fight Auston "no, I'll score that myself, thanks" Matthews and William "I love having the puck" Nylander for some time with the rubber.

And that's exactly why Marleau might not work out with Matthews. He has a very similar offensive style to van Riemsdyk, and he shoots from very tight to the net like Matthews does. He does not shoot at quite the high rate of JvR, but it's close. Marleau has also spent a lot of years playing with the grand champion of pass-first centres in Joe Thornton.

Marleau - Matthews - Marner
Leivo - Kadri - Kapanen
Johnsson - Nylander - Brown
Rychel - Moore - Hyman
Soshnikov

Offline Nik the Trik

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Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - General Discussion
« Reply #76 on: September 07, 2017, 12:48:51 PM »

I think it's generally true that, when constructing lines, you want to care about fit and matching styles of play as much as it's just a grouping of talent. That said, I also think talented hockey players can adjust their style of play depending on who they're playing with.
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Online herman

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Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - General Discussion
« Reply #77 on: September 07, 2017, 02:04:46 PM »
www.twitter.com/LeafsPR/status/905852908994011137

Offline riff raff

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Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - General Discussion
« Reply #78 on: September 07, 2017, 02:23:26 PM »
www.twitter.com/LeafsPR/status/905852908994011137

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Offline princedpw

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Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - General Discussion
« Reply #79 on: September 07, 2017, 09:45:52 PM »
https://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/2017/9/7/16253088/toronto-maple-leafs-forward-lines-leo-komarov-james-van-riemsdyk-patrick-marleau-dealine-trade

This does not get talked about enough:
Quote
Forward lineups are not a report card. They aren't a marker of status. You can't deal out players from a list of who is best down to who isn't and produce a perfect lineup. That's how you get people suggesting van Riemsdyk should play with Matthews and Nylander.

I'm not sure if it was ever conclusively determined if they'd need three pucks or just two to make that work, but the charts contained in that very story show you that van Riemsdyk is one of the highest volume shooters on the Leafs. Hooking him up with the pass-first Bozak and the pass-often Marner makes more sense than having him fight Auston "no, I'll score that myself, thanks" Matthews and William "I love having the puck" Nylander for some time with the rubber.

And that's exactly why Marleau might not work out with Matthews. He has a very similar offensive style to van Riemsdyk, and he shoots from very tight to the net like Matthews does. He does not shoot at quite the high rate of JvR, but it's close. Marleau has also spent a lot of years playing with the grand champion of pass-first centres in Joe Thornton.

Marleau - Matthews - Marner
Leivo - Kadri - Kapanen
Johnsson - Nylander - Brown
Rychel - Moore - Hyman
Soshnikov

The never-going-to-happen, all-fun-all-the-time lineup:

Leivo - Matthews - Nylander
Komorov - Kadri - Kapanen
JVR - Bozak - Marner
Hyman - Marleau - Brown
Moore

Gardiner - Zaitsev
Reilly - Carrick
Hainsey - Liljegren

I'd like to see that 4th line lining up against the fourth liners of any other team.

Offline Significantly Insignificant

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Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - General Discussion
« Reply #80 on: September 07, 2017, 11:03:53 PM »
https://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/2017/9/7/16253088/toronto-maple-leafs-forward-lines-leo-komarov-james-van-riemsdyk-patrick-marleau-dealine-trade

This does not get talked about enough:
Quote
Forward lineups are not a report card. They aren't a marker of status. You can't deal out players from a list of who is best down to who isn't and produce a perfect lineup. That's how you get people suggesting van Riemsdyk should play with Matthews and Nylander.

I'm not sure if it was ever conclusively determined if they'd need three pucks or just two to make that work, but the charts contained in that very story show you that van Riemsdyk is one of the highest volume shooters on the Leafs. Hooking him up with the pass-first Bozak and the pass-often Marner makes more sense than having him fight Auston "no, I'll score that myself, thanks" Matthews and William "I love having the puck" Nylander for some time with the rubber.

And that's exactly why Marleau might not work out with Matthews. He has a very similar offensive style to van Riemsdyk, and he shoots from very tight to the net like Matthews does. He does not shoot at quite the high rate of JvR, but it's close. Marleau has also spent a lot of years playing with the grand champion of pass-first centres in Joe Thornton.

Marleau - Matthews - Marner
Leivo - Kadri - Kapanen
Johnsson - Nylander - Brown
Rychel - Moore - Hyman
Soshnikov

The never-going-to-happen, all-fun-all-the-time lineup:

Leivo - Matthews - Nylander
Komorov - Kadri - Kapanen
JVR - Bozak - Marner
Hyman - Marleau - Brown
Moore

Gardiner - Zaitsev
Reilly - Carrick
Hainsey - Liljegren

I'd like to see that 4th line lining up against the fourth liners of any other team.

Done with Marleau already eh?
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Offline AvroArrow

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Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - General Discussion
« Reply #81 on: September 08, 2017, 08:34:37 AM »
The never-going-to-happen, all-fun-all-the-time lineup:

Leivo - Matthews - Nylander
Komorov - Kadri - Kapanen
JVR - Bozak - Marner
Hyman - Marleau - Brown
Moore

Gardiner - Zaitsev
Reilly - Carrick
Hainsey - Liljegren

I'd like to see that 4th line lining up against the fourth liners of any other team.

I'd make a couple swaps:. Brown and Kapanen, Hyman and Leivo

Hyman - Matthews - Nylander
Komorov - Kadri - Brown
JVR - Bozak - Marner
Leivo - Marleau - Kapanen
Moore

I know that means another year of Hyman with Matthews, but try to line match that lineup!

Offline CarltonTheBear

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Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - General Discussion
« Reply #82 on: September 08, 2017, 08:55:30 AM »
For what it's worth, Bob McKenzie said the other day that (in his personal opinion) he thinks Marleau will start with Kadri, and the other two lines will remain intact from last season.

Online herman

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Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - General Discussion
« Reply #83 on: September 08, 2017, 08:59:34 AM »
For what it's worth, Bob McKenzie said the other day that (in his personal opinion) he thinks Marleau will start with Kadri, and the other two lines will remain intact from last season.

I just want to see our UFAs traded.

But I wouldn't be against this to start the season:

Hyman - Matthews - Nylander
Marleau - Kadri - Brown
JvR - Bozak - Marner
Komarov - Moore - Kapanen

Offline Arn

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Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - General Discussion
« Reply #84 on: September 08, 2017, 09:32:32 AM »
Is there really any point in speculating on lines and not including Martin? I mean it's nice to dream and all....
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Online herman

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Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - General Discussion
« Reply #85 on: September 08, 2017, 09:37:48 AM »
Is there really any point in speculating on lines and not including Martin? I mean it's nice to dream and all....

Have you not seen me beat this dead horse? I only care insofar as he is clogging up opportunity for someone I feel could be a better contributor to the scoresheet.

Anyway, Martin might be better this year as long as he just focuses on forechecking fast to get the puck to the front of the net.

Offline Arn

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Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - General Discussion
« Reply #86 on: September 08, 2017, 10:44:53 AM »
He's a real good pro though.

Intangibles.

Obviously.
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Online herman

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Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - General Discussion
« Reply #88 on: September 08, 2017, 02:12:11 PM »
https://theleafsnation.com/2017/09/08/torontos-experience-with-daniel-winnik-should-inspire-rebuilding-teams/

Quote
Developmentally, Winnik’s value is a little harder to figure because we can’t go back and see what would have happened to Kozun and Ashton and Nylander and Brown if they’d been given more of an opportunity. With the value of hindsight, though, it looks like having a veteran ahead of those players didn’t hurt the real prospects and didn’t derail anybody who would have ended up mattering to the organization.

Okay fine, roll with Martin. If he could actually PK, I would probably have a much more favourable view here, but we've got some very interesting PK ponies already.

Offline Nik the Trik

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Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - General Discussion
« Reply #89 on: September 08, 2017, 02:18:59 PM »
https://theleafsnation.com/2017/09/08/torontos-experience-with-daniel-winnik-should-inspire-rebuilding-teams/

Quote
Developmentally, Winnik’s value is a little harder to figure because we can’t go back and see what would have happened to Kozun and Ashton and Nylander and Brown if they’d been given more of an opportunity. With the value of hindsight, though, it looks like having a veteran ahead of those players didn’t hurt the real prospects and didn’t derail anybody who would have ended up mattering to the organization.

Okay fine, roll with Martin. If he could actually PK, I would probably have a much more favourable view here, but we've got some very interesting PK ponies already.

I don't get this:

Quote
There’s a common misconception that rebuilding teams should clear the decks for their prospects, giving them plenty of playing time and avoiding bringing in mid-tier veterans to compete with them for minutes. It’s a problematic approach from a development perspective, as internal competition can help players develop and “over-ripening” prospects is often preferable to baptizing them by fire anyway.

Since when is that true? As far as I know the opposite is true. A rebuilding team should be limited to prospects and mid-tier veterans you can peel off and trade for picks. The players of questionable purpose on a rebuilding team are guys like JVR or Bozak who make the team better, hurting their draft chances, but don't figure to be around long term.
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Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - General Discussion
« Reply #89 on: September 08, 2017, 02:18:59 PM »