Author Topic: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - General Discussion  (Read 18483 times)

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Offline Nik the Trik

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Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - General Discussion
« Reply #45 on: September 01, 2017, 09:55:39 AM »
You think the limit might be reduced? I would expect that to be a major concession for the players to concede.

I think the League will get more or less whatever they want just like they have in the last two CBAs.
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Offline Bill_Berg

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Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - General Discussion
« Reply #46 on: September 01, 2017, 10:15:36 AM »
You think the limit might be reduced? I would expect that to be a major concession for the players to concede.

I think the League will get more or less whatever they want just like they have in the last two CBAs.

Last one needed a lock-out though  :(

Offline Nik the Trik

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Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - General Discussion
« Reply #47 on: September 01, 2017, 10:32:07 AM »
Last one needed a lock-out though  :(

Last 2 did. But the 2004 lockout lasted a full year whereas in '12 the players folded in January so with any luck the players will get crushed in November next time.
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Offline bustaheims

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Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - General Discussion
« Reply #48 on: September 01, 2017, 12:30:33 PM »
A potential problem with that is the idea that post-the next CBA there'll still be the option of 8 year deals.

That's true, though I'm not sure how much of a concern that's going to be. They haven't seemed to be a problem so far. I think they'll be more focused on reducing the length of contracts signed in the UFA market than they will be on re-signings. I can see them pushing for a 6/8 split instead of a 7/8, to give teams more leverage to retain talent.
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Offline Bill_Berg

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Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - General Discussion
« Reply #49 on: September 01, 2017, 01:19:55 PM »
Last one needed a lock-out though  :(

Last 2 did. But the 2004 lockout lasted a full year whereas in '12 the players folded in January so with any luck the players will get crushed in November next time.

Something to look forward to!

Offline Nik the Trik

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Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - General Discussion
« Reply #50 on: September 01, 2017, 01:26:33 PM »
That's true, though I'm not sure how much of a concern that's going to be. They haven't seemed to be a problem so far. I think they'll be more focused on reducing the length of contracts signed in the UFA market than they will be on re-signings. I can see them pushing for a 6/8 split instead of a 7/8, to give teams more leverage to retain talent.

I think you're right in the sense that the current 7/8 split hasn't been a problem in the sense that it hasn't resulted in too many terrible 7 or 8 year deals(although I'm sure the league doesn't want to see any more Nathan Horton/David Clarkson type contracts).

Where I think the League is going to come from is going to be in wanting to significantly lower the risk involved in signing mid tier free agents. There are a lot of terrible 4, 5 and 6 year deals that agents have gotten for players because they can be sold as being under the upper threshold. I think the league is going to want to turn those deals into 2, 3 and 4 year deals and I think the relative upside of being able to lock in the guys you want to sign long term to 7 or 8 year deals isn't that big a deal because teams haven't really shown an inability to sign guys that they want to sign as they're pending UFA's(and stars aren't really showing a desire to test the upper limits of their earning power).

Plus, more UFA's means more raises which means teams stay at the top shorter(satisfying the league's love of parity) and a more active UFA market(fun!). My guess is after the next CBA deals are limited at 4/5 or 5/6.
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Offline Frank E

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Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - General Discussion
« Reply #51 on: September 01, 2017, 01:56:45 PM »
That's true, though I'm not sure how much of a concern that's going to be. They haven't seemed to be a problem so far. I think they'll be more focused on reducing the length of contracts signed in the UFA market than they will be on re-signings. I can see them pushing for a 6/8 split instead of a 7/8, to give teams more leverage to retain talent.

I think you're right in the sense that the current 7/8 split hasn't been a problem in the sense that it hasn't resulted in too many terrible 7 or 8 year deals(although I'm sure the league doesn't want to see any more Nathan Horton/David Clarkson type contracts).

Where I think the League is going to come from is going to be in wanting to significantly lower the risk involved in signing mid tier free agents. There are a lot of terrible 4, 5 and 6 year deals that agents have gotten for players because they can be sold as being under the upper threshold. I think the league is going to want to turn those deals into 2, 3 and 4 year deals and I think the relative upside of being able to lock in the guys you want to sign long term to 7 or 8 year deals isn't that big a deal because teams haven't really shown an inability to sign guys that they want to sign as they're pending UFA's(and stars aren't really showing a desire to test the upper limits of their earning power).

Plus, more UFA's means more raises which means teams stay at the top shorter(satisfying the league's love of parity) and a more active UFA market(fun!). My guess is after the next CBA deals are limited at 4/5 or 5/6.

I'm likely misunderstanding something here, but how does putting a contract term limit of 4-6 years going to curb bad 4-6 year deals?

Offline Nik the Trik

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Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - General Discussion
« Reply #52 on: September 01, 2017, 02:04:56 PM »
I'm likely misunderstanding something here, but how does putting a contract term limit of 4-6 years going to curb bad 4-6 year deals?

It's pretty simple. The NBA used to have 7 year deals. That meant the best players got 7 year deals. Mid-tier players, with less leverage because they weren't as good, got 4 and 5 year deals. Then the NBA limited deals to 4 and 5 years. Now mid tier players, who still have less leverage, get 2 and 3 year deals. If you set an upper limit on something it resets the entire structure, not just the top.
« Last Edit: September 01, 2017, 02:06:51 PM by Nik the Trik »
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Offline CarltonTheBear

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Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - General Discussion
« Reply #53 on: September 01, 2017, 02:09:03 PM »
I'm generally pro-player when it comes to CBA-related disputes, but I think that shorter term lengths would actually be really good for the league.*

*provided that we get the big 3 all locked up prior to those coming in effect because my heart couldn't bear losing them

Offline bustaheims

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Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - General Discussion
« Reply #54 on: September 01, 2017, 02:20:49 PM »
I'm generally pro-player when it comes to CBA-related disputes, but I think that shorter term lengths would actually be really good for the league.*

*provided that we get the big 3 all locked up prior to those coming in effect because my heart couldn't bear losing them

Ultimately, it would be good for some of the players, too. It will increase their ability to cash in on big seasons - with the obvious caveat that it will also mean that poor seasons will have a larger impact, as well.
"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

Offline Nik the Trik

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Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - General Discussion
« Reply #55 on: September 01, 2017, 02:23:51 PM »
I'm generally pro-player when it comes to CBA-related disputes, but I think that shorter term lengths would actually be really good for the league.*

*provided that we get the big 3 all locked up prior to those coming in effect because my heart couldn't bear losing them

Well, and beyond that, what we've seen in the NBA is that players are effectively using the shorter terms to consolidate on good teams around the league. Obviously the NHL's hard cap will stem that possibility to some extent but if players are willing to take a little less, then you could see significant migration of talent.
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Offline disco

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Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - General Discussion
« Reply #56 on: September 01, 2017, 08:21:29 PM »
NHL.com's Dan Rosen and Matt Waymire take a look at the Toronto Maple Leafs for the upcoming 2017-18 NHL season:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-K7woZm5BkU
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Offline Significantly Insignificant

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Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - General Discussion
« Reply #57 on: September 02, 2017, 09:26:20 AM »
I'm generally pro-player when it comes to CBA-related disputes, but I think that shorter term lengths would actually be really good for the league.*

*provided that we get the big 3 all locked up prior to those coming in effect because my heart couldn't bear losing them

Well, and beyond that, what we've seen in the NBA is that players are effectively using the shorter terms to consolidate on good teams around the league. Obviously the NHL's hard cap will stem that possibility to some extent but if players are willing to take a little less, then you could see significant migration of talent.

NFL Players can't terminate their own contracts, can they?  The team is able to release them though, right?  I get that it would be a gong show if the players could terminate their own contracts, but that seems fairly one sided.
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Offline Highlander

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Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - General Discussion
« Reply #58 on: September 02, 2017, 09:31:52 AM »
I think the only way a player could terminate his contract is to retire otherwise what are contracts for.
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Offline Bullfrog

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Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - General Discussion
« Reply #59 on: September 02, 2017, 10:13:34 AM »
I think the only way a player could terminate his contract is to retire otherwise what are contracts for.

Many contracts in different types of business have termination clauses.

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Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - General Discussion
« Reply #59 on: September 02, 2017, 10:13:34 AM »