Author Topic: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - General Discussion  (Read 59877 times)

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Offline herman

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Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - General Discussion
« Reply #586 on: December 22, 2017, 11:28:51 AM »
Carrick was benched in the 2nd half of the 3rd period against Columbus after he got beat on that goal, so I thought he might have sat here. Guess he's getting a little more rope.

I don't even fault Carrick for that goal. He was tackled at the line and had his stick snapped on the play. Carrick still tried to get back to contest the shot, but it was McElhinney playing regular mode. I think his 'benching' had more to do with Babcock trying to 'help' Gardiner, who was having an unsafe game.

Offline Strangelove

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Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - General Discussion
« Reply #587 on: December 22, 2017, 01:07:52 PM »
Sit Martin, put Komarov on the 4th line, and put Kapanen on the second, and you'd have a really dangerous-looking line-up.

I'd settle for even just swapping Komarov and Brown. This is obviously an insanely small sample size, but the line of Marleau-Kadri-Brown has scored 3 goals together (and given up 0) in just under 9 minutes of even-strength ice time this season. I really think that line could look good at both ends of the ice together.

I'd be more than happy with that move as well. Sure it's a small sample size, but Komarov's even strength offensive numbers are devastatingly bad even with a large sample size. I don't think it's a crazy to suggest that he's significantly holding the line back, and that demoting him would very likely pay quick dividends.

Offline Strangelove

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Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - General Discussion
« Reply #588 on: December 22, 2017, 01:14:36 PM »
https://mapleleafshotstove.com/2017/12/22/leafs-links-elliotte-friedman-jvrs-future-toronto-dont-think-hes-underappreciated-internally-think-wants-stay-think-want-stay/

JvR thoughts up there.

Unless they get him on a steal of a deal I think it would be a mistake to lock JVR up long term for 6 million +. He is not getting younger and is such a one dimensional player that he could pretty quickly be a huge liability if the offence dries up even a bit.

Offline freer

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Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - General Discussion
« Reply #589 on: December 22, 2017, 02:37:43 PM »
https://mapleleafshotstove.com/2017/12/22/leafs-links-elliotte-friedman-jvrs-future-toronto-dont-think-hes-underappreciated-internally-think-wants-stay-think-want-stay/

JvR thoughts up there.

Unless they get him on a steal of a deal I think it would be a mistake to lock JVR up long term for 6 million +. He is not getting younger and is such a one dimensional player that he could pretty quickly be a huge liability if the offence dries up even a bit.

Ok so we don't resign him and the likely hood of him being traded is slim if the team is in the playoff hunt. Who in our system is going to replace him. And PLEASE don't say Leivo!!!

Offline Chris

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Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - General Discussion
« Reply #590 on: December 22, 2017, 03:20:14 PM »
https://mapleleafshotstove.com/2017/12/22/leafs-links-elliotte-friedman-jvrs-future-toronto-dont-think-hes-underappreciated-internally-think-wants-stay-think-want-stay/

JvR thoughts up there.

Unless they get him on a steal of a deal I think it would be a mistake to lock JVR up long term for 6 million +. He is not getting younger and is such a one dimensional player that he could pretty quickly be a huge liability if the offence dries up even a bit.

Ok so we don't resign him and the likely hood of him being traded is slim if the team is in the playoff hunt. Who in our system is going to replace him. And PLEASE don't say Leivo!!!
That's a good question. I think we still really don't know what we have in Leivo. Earlier in the season I was not impressed and would have been happy to see him let go for a pick. But in some of the recent games, I saw some things I liked. I think he deserves some time on a more offensive line, maybe with Matthews or Kadri for a bit. He certainly won't drive a line but he could be a very good complimentary piece (kind of like JVR).

Otherwise...if JVR goes you move Kapanen up (he should really be an everyday player at this point) and hopefully can replace Komarov with someone with more speed and offensive talent. Johnsson maybe? Leivo? So maybe his (JVR's) replacement would be sort of a committee approach where you upgrade a couple of positions from within - none of them being able to replace JVR's production by themselves, but maybe the team overall is stronger.

The other option is to find a free agent or someone who needs a change of scenery from another team.

One player I've lost some of my confidence in is Brown. He works had and is very opportunistic but he really doesn't create much on his own and I've seen him blow a lot of defensive assignments this year, often resulting in goals. I'd prefer him over Komarov on one of the top 3 lines but if you bring Kapanen up and everyone else is healthy...

Offline freer

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Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - General Discussion
« Reply #591 on: December 22, 2017, 09:49:48 PM »
https://mapleleafshotstove.com/2017/12/22/leafs-links-elliotte-friedman-jvrs-future-toronto-dont-think-hes-underappreciated-internally-think-wants-stay-think-want-stay/

JvR thoughts up there.

Unless they get him on a steal of a deal I think it would be a mistake to lock JVR up long term for 6 million +. He is not getting younger and is such a one dimensional player that he could pretty quickly be a huge liability if the offence dries up even a bit.

Ok so we don't resign him and the likely hood of him being traded is slim if the team is in the playoff hunt. Who in our system is going to replace him. And PLEASE don't say Leivo!!!
That's a good question. I think we still really don't know what we have in Leivo. Earlier in the season I was not impressed and would have been happy to see him let go for a pick. But in some of the recent games, I saw some things I liked. I think he deserves some time on a more offensive line, maybe with Matthews or Kadri for a bit. He certainly won't drive a line but he could be a very good complimentary piece (kind of like JVR).

Otherwise...if JVR goes you move Kapanen up (he should really be an everyday player at this point) and hopefully can replace Komarov with someone with more speed and offensive talent. Johnsson maybe? Leivo? So maybe his (JVR's) replacement would be sort of a committee approach where you upgrade a couple of positions from within - none of them being able to replace JVR's production by themselves, but maybe the team overall is stronger.

The other option is to find a free agent or someone who needs a change of scenery from another team.

One player I've lost some of my confidence in is Brown. He works had and is very opportunistic but he really doesn't create much on his own and I've seen him blow a lot of defensive assignments this year, often resulting in goals. I'd prefer him over Komarov on one of the top 3 lines but if you bring Kapanen up and everyone else is healthy...

IMO, I have not been impressed with Kapanen this year. Yes in the playoffs he was excellent. This years MEH!. I also don't see Leivo other then a 4th line in the NHL. It is probably the right thing to trade JVR unless they can sign him for a good price, but if we are in the hunt I don't see it happening.

Offline Chris

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Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - General Discussion
« Reply #592 on: December 22, 2017, 10:51:04 PM »

IMO, I have not been impressed with Kapanen this year. Yes in the playoffs he was excellent. This years MEH!. I also don't see Leivo other then a 4th line in the NHL. It is probably the right thing to trade JVR unless they can sign him for a good price, but if we are in the hunt I don't see it happening.

We'll have to disagree on Kapanen. He looks more than ready to me and I think could easily step in for Komarov or even Brown. Whether he can sustain higher level play for longer periods is a concern but he's got the skill, the skating and plays a bit of a physical game.

Really, neither he nor Leivo are getting much of a chance to play regularly with offensive players. How much can either be expected to accomplish playing a game here and there with Moore and Martin?

As for the wisdom of trading JVR, I would think a lot would depend on the return. If teams are offering the moon, then I'd say go for it and bring Kapanen in as a regular. If the return is so-so, it might be better to just keep him especially if management feels the team is a legit contender this year (I don't think they are, especially if Matthews doesn't return to form).

Offline bustaheims

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Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - General Discussion
« Reply #593 on: December 23, 2017, 11:54:18 AM »
As for the wisdom of trading JVR, I would think a lot would depend on the return. If teams are offering the moon, then I'd say go for it and bring Kapanen in as a regular. If the return is so-so, it might be better to just keep him especially if management feels the team is a legit contender this year (I don't think they are, especially if Matthews doesn't return to form).

That's probably a fair position to take. A lot will also depend where the team is when the deadline rolls around. If they have a playoff spot clearly locked up, then I have to imagine they'll be inclined to hold on to JvR in the hopes of a deep playoff run. If they're a bubble team? Well, then, you have to think seriously about moving him. And, really, when they're rolling, the Leafs are deep enough that they can score a good rate without JvR. When they're not, he's not enough to push them over the top. He helps make it easier for the team to win, but he's not a good enough player that he leads the team to a lot of wins.
"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

Offline Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate

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Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - General Discussion
« Reply #594 on: December 23, 2017, 01:58:37 PM »
As for the wisdom of trading JVR, I would think a lot would depend on the return. If teams are offering the moon, then I'd say go for it and bring Kapanen in as a regular. If the return is so-so, it might be better to just keep him especially if management feels the team is a legit contender this year (I don't think they are, especially if Matthews doesn't return to form).

That's probably a fair position to take. A lot will also depend where the team is when the deadline rolls around. If they have a playoff spot clearly locked up, then I have to imagine they'll be inclined to hold on to JvR in the hopes of a deep playoff run. If they're a bubble team? Well, then, you have to think seriously about moving him. And, really, when they're rolling, the Leafs are deep enough that they can score a good rate without JvR. When they're not, he's not enough to push them over the top. He helps make it easier for the team to win, but he's not a good enough player that he leads the team to a lot of wins.

I think what you said at the end is true, but if so it argues for trading him no matter what.  There is enough talent here that JVR is not the key to whether they go deep or not.  He helps them, yes, but not the difference maker.

For example, say they keep him for a big run but then Andersen gets hurt and can't go.  There goes your hope, JVR or not, and then he could walk for nothing.

I like van Riemsdyk, quite a lot actually, but given the make-up of the team and his UFA status I think they'd be wise to trade him for the best return they can muster, hopefully one that is D-heavy.

Offline bustaheims

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Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - General Discussion
« Reply #595 on: December 23, 2017, 03:12:19 PM »
I think what you said at the end is true, but if so it argues for trading him no matter what.  There is enough talent here that JVR is not the key to whether they go deep or not.  He helps them, yes, but not the difference maker.

Yeah, maybe. Where they are in terms of comfort in making the playoffs maybe just pushes the price up a little. He's not a difference maker if the Leafs are a bubble team but, if they are a legit contender, he might be enough to push them ahead of another contender in an individual series. He's not the difference between going deep in the playoffs or losing in the first round, but he might be the difference between winning the Cup or losing in the finals. That doesn't mean you absolutely eliminate the thought of moving him, but it does move the fenceposts, so to speak.

That being said, if Tampa stays healthy, I don't think the Leafs have strong odds of making it out of the 2nd round.
« Last Edit: December 23, 2017, 03:15:23 PM by bustaheims »
"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

Offline herman

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Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - General Discussion
« Reply #596 on: December 24, 2017, 06:30:50 AM »
More JvR thoughts, with some Bozak in the mix:
https://theathletic.com/191006/2017/12/21/dellow-same-but-different-pp1-provides-van-riemsdyk-with-argument-for-contract-extension/

The interesting note from Dellow here is how much the switch from Zaitsev to Rielly has changed PP1’s focal points on their attack approach, particularly affecting Bozak’s contributions. PP setups are so handedness-dependent.

Offline herman

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Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - General Discussion
« Reply #597 on: December 25, 2017, 06:34:45 PM »

Babcock is pretty obvious about how he manages the media. The media is a very willing participant.

Offline Bender

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Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - General Discussion
« Reply #598 on: December 26, 2017, 09:40:05 PM »

Babcock is pretty obvious about how he manages the media. The media is a very willing participant.
I bought this from Craig this year for Christmas. Can't wait to read! Love his podcast.
"They say you can judge a man by the company he keeps. So here is the professor's oldest friend, a grotesque, stinking lobster." - Bender

Offline herman

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Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - General Discussion
« Reply #599 on: December 27, 2017, 03:33:58 PM »
I bought this from Craig this year for Christmas. Can't wait to read! Love his podcast.

At least on the podcast, he certainly has a way of facilitating his subject's story without making it about himself.

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Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - General Discussion
« Reply #599 on: December 27, 2017, 03:33:58 PM »