Author Topic: Hyman Signed  (Read 3037 times)

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Offline CarltonTheBear

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Re: Hyman Signed
« Reply #30 on: July 06, 2017, 09:41:54 AM »
Ah, the old appeal to authority argument. Yes, Lou Lamoriello and Mike Babcock have literally never made a mistake before in their hockey careers. No hockey GM or coach ever has actually. Who am I to question them. My bad.

Offline CarltonTheBear

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Re: Hyman Signed
« Reply #31 on: July 06, 2017, 09:50:39 AM »
How do you conclude that 6% SH% is lower than his career would suggest?  He only had 16 other games before last season.  Maybe 6% is what he shoots?  (in 98 career games now he's 7.3%)

Shooting league average would have earned him a whooping 2-3 extra goals this season.

Online herman

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Re: Hyman Signed
« Reply #32 on: July 06, 2017, 09:56:16 AM »
There's a chance Hyman's box stats gets a boost from playing against weaker competition if he's lower on the lineup. His 6% sh% is characteristically lower than his career would suggest. He had that explosive senior year with Michigan where he was probably in an overmatch position to succeed and did so.

How do you conclude that 6% SH% is lower than his career would suggest?  He only had 16 other games before last season.  Maybe 6% is what he shoots?  (in 98 career games now he's 7.3%)

He is shooting consistently from high danger areas, and really his only shooting problem was that he was too close at times, due to skating into the pile with his head down. I don't have corsica's numbers available now, but during the year, he was consistently underperforming his xGF.

When he was on the PK, he didn't go as deep, and in transition plays, he showed capable hands. I think he can be better when he's not playing a deferential top line role on his off wing with players that think faster than he does.

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Re: Hyman Signed
« Reply #33 on: July 06, 2017, 09:59:03 AM »
So all I'm trying to say is, 2.25M for a middle six winger in his prime is a pretty good deal.

I think it looks like an overpay because we're carrying other baggage.

Offline CarltonTheBear

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Re: Hyman Signed
« Reply #34 on: July 06, 2017, 10:02:30 AM »
So all I'm trying to say is, 2.25M for a middle six winger in his prime is a pretty good deal.

I think that calling him a middle six winger (which suggests he can be a 2nd liner) is still very, very much open to debate. Without Matthews, he could very well just be a (pretty good) 4th liner. And at best, I still think "bottom-6" is still his classifier.
« Last Edit: July 06, 2017, 10:07:18 AM by CarltonTheBear »

Offline Frank E

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Re: Hyman Signed
« Reply #35 on: July 06, 2017, 10:07:04 AM »
So all I'm trying to say is, 2.25M for a middle six winger in his prime is a pretty good deal.

I think that calling him a middle six winger (which suggests he can be a 2nd liner) is still very, very much open to debate. Without Matthews, he could very well just be a (pretty good) 4th liner.

You don't think he could replace Komarov?

Online herman

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Re: Hyman Signed
« Reply #36 on: July 06, 2017, 10:09:31 AM »
So all I'm trying to say is, 2.25M for a middle six winger in his prime is a pretty good deal.

I think that calling him a middle six winger (which suggests he can be a 2nd liner) is still very, very much open to debate. Without Matthews, he could very well just be a (pretty good) 4th liner.

I'd say he's an exceptional 4th, but has the tools to move up the line up (and trust of the coach, which we are bound to for a good stretch). He played fairly well in a sheltered scoring line with Nylander for the last chunk of that lost season, and didn't get snowed under playing 1st line (but didn't really produce either). Defensive conscience of a 2nd line isn't out of the question, in my mind.

Either way, he's not going to be the prime scoring option, but he's also not going to be a liability.

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Re: Hyman Signed
« Reply #37 on: July 06, 2017, 10:12:31 AM »
We're at 48/50 SPCs before Brown signs. I'm pretty sure we're going to shed some roster spots.

Online herman

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Re: Hyman Signed
« Reply #38 on: July 06, 2017, 10:25:40 AM »
https://theleafsnation.com/2017/07/06/paying-the-small-price-for-utility/

Convergent evolution towards the same discussion.

Offline Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate

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Re: Hyman Signed
« Reply #39 on: July 06, 2017, 10:26:40 AM »
There's a chance Hyman's box stats gets a boost from playing against weaker competition if he's lower on the lineup. His 6% sh% is characteristically lower than his career would suggest. He had that explosive senior year with Michigan where he was probably in an overmatch position to succeed and did so.

How do you conclude that 6% SH% is lower than his career would suggest?  He only had 16 other games before last season.  Maybe 6% is what he shoots?  (in 98 career games now he's 7.3%)

He is shooting consistently from high danger areas, and really his only shooting problem was that he was too close at times, due to skating into the pile with his head down. I don't have corsica's numbers available now, but during the year, he was consistently underperforming his xGF.

When he was on the PK, he didn't go as deep, and in transition plays, he showed capable hands. I think he can be better when he's not playing a deferential top line role on his off wing with players that think faster than he does.

I'm wondering if this is the primary reason they want him.

Offline Zee

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Re: Hyman Signed
« Reply #40 on: July 06, 2017, 10:27:37 AM »
We're at 48/50 SPCs before Brown signs. I'm pretty sure we're going to shed some roster spots.

Still waiting on the JVR/Komarov shoe to drop in a trade.

Offline Nik the Trik

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Re: Hyman Signed
« Reply #41 on: July 06, 2017, 10:30:22 AM »
Two things about this deal that make me not dislike it as much as some:

1. Try to look at it removed from the current context of the Leafs having way too many forwards than there are roster spots. Yes, right now it looks like 2.25 million for what might be the 5th or 6th best option at LW on the team but what will the team probably look like in that third year?

X-Matthews-Marner
X-Kadri-Brown
X-Nylander-Kapanen
X-X-X

The team is probably moving on from Komarov and JVR and Marleau probably won't be around. The team doesn't have much in the way of surefire LW prospects and they probably won't have the money to go out and spend on Marleau the way they did this year. So Hyman, as someone who you can put on a scoring line as a bit of a defensive conscience or a shutdown line, could be pretty useful in trying to cobble together 4 decent LW.

2. Being as the team may be moving on from a lot of guys who are well regarded veterans in the near future there may be an intangible benefit in keeping a bunch of the guys who came up together all relatively happy with their deals and together. Given the difference between what Hyman got and what would be a number I don't think anyone would side-eye is relatively small it seems like something not worth exaggerating.
Give a man the reputation of an early riser and he can sleep 'til noon
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Offline WhatIfGodWasALeaf

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Re: Hyman Signed
« Reply #42 on: July 06, 2017, 11:49:13 AM »

Offline mr grieves

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Re: Hyman Signed
« Reply #43 on: July 06, 2017, 01:34:43 PM »
There's a chance Hyman's box stats gets a boost from playing against weaker competition if he's lower on the lineup. His 6% sh% is characteristically lower than his career would suggest. He had that explosive senior year with Michigan where he was probably in an overmatch position to succeed and did so.

How do you conclude that 6% SH% is lower than his career would suggest?  He only had 16 other games before last season.  Maybe 6% is what he shoots?  (in 98 career games now he's 7.3%)

He is shooting consistently from high danger areas, and really his only shooting problem was that he was too close at times, due to skating into the pile with his head down. I don't have corsica's numbers available now, but during the year, he was consistently underperforming his xGF.

When he was on the PK, he didn't go as deep, and in transition plays, he showed capable hands. I think he can be better when he's not playing a deferential top line role on his off wing with players that think faster than he does.

I remember seeing those xGF numbers too. And I've certainly picked out guys I liked and credited them with the goals they "earned" but didn't, y'know, actually score (just luck). But isn't it also possible that a player underperforming his xGF means he just might not have an NHL-calibre shot?

Online herman

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Re: Hyman Signed
« Reply #44 on: July 06, 2017, 01:39:30 PM »
I remember seeing those xGF numbers too. And I've certainly picked out guys I liked and credited them with the goals they "earned" but didn't, y'know, actually score (just luck). But isn't it also possible that a player underperforming his xGF means he just might not have an NHL-calibre shot?

You don't need an NHL-calibre shot to score if you consistently park your butt in the right spots (see Kadri). Like I said in the bolded part, his problem was simply being in too tight and not being ready for passes from hockey savants.

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Re: Hyman Signed
« Reply #44 on: July 06, 2017, 01:39:30 PM »