Author Topic: Ranking Prospects - 2017-18  (Read 13703 times)

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Offline CarltonTheBear

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Re: Ranking Prospects - 2017-18
« Reply #135 on: August 24, 2017, 09:30:23 AM »
I just realized that Leivo went ahead of Dermott. That's pretty questionable.

Online herman

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Re: Ranking Prospects - 2017-18
« Reply #136 on: August 24, 2017, 09:35:11 AM »
I just realized that Leivo went ahead of Dermott. That's pretty questionable.

That one surprised me a lot, but he's in the NHL and can score (so far) and just looks like he's been given a raw deal on opportunity, whereas Dermott hasn't seen any NHL time yet and PPP voting really values that sort of thing.

Offline Coco-puffs

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Re: Ranking Prospects - 2017-18
« Reply #137 on: August 24, 2017, 09:41:27 AM »
I just realized that Leivo went ahead of Dermott. That's pretty questionable.

As herman said, PPP tends to vote more with what they know.  Had they gone more with realistic upside, you'd have Dermott ahead of Leivo for sure and Liljegren ahead of Kapanen and Brown.  Which is how I ranked them.

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Re: Ranking Prospects - 2017-18
« Reply #138 on: August 24, 2017, 10:05:14 AM »
In the near future, we will have most, if not all, of these players carving through the neutral zone:

Matthews, Nylander, Marner, Rielly, Kadri, Gardiner (hopefully), Dermott, Liljegren

Offline CarltonTheBear

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Re: Ranking Prospects - 2017-18
« Reply #139 on: August 24, 2017, 10:11:57 AM »
I just realized that Leivo went ahead of Dermott. That's pretty questionable.

As herman said, PPP tends to vote more with what they know.  Had they gone more with realistic upside, you'd have Dermott ahead of Leivo for sure and Liljegren ahead of Kapanen and Brown.  Which is how I ranked them.

Well what made it particularly surprising was how low he was on previous lists. In 2015 he was 15th, and last year he dropped all the way back to 18th (behind younger guys like Bracco, Timashov, Johnsson who all have a higher upside). And I don't really think much has changed in regards to his status in the past few years other than his age. He's not really much closer to a full time NHL job than he was 2 years ago.

Offline Coco-puffs

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Re: Ranking Prospects - 2017-18
« Reply #140 on: August 24, 2017, 10:46:35 AM »
I just realized that Leivo went ahead of Dermott. That's pretty questionable.

As herman said, PPP tends to vote more with what they know.  Had they gone more with realistic upside, you'd have Dermott ahead of Leivo for sure and Liljegren ahead of Kapanen and Brown.  Which is how I ranked them.

Well what made it particularly surprising was how low he was on previous lists. In 2015 he was 15th, and last year he dropped all the way back to 18th (behind younger guys like Bracco, Timashov, Johnsson who all have a higher upside). And I don't really think much has changed in regards to his status in the past few years other than his age. He's not really much closer to a full time NHL job than he was 2 years ago.

Yeah, seems that everyone was a bit too impressed with his 10 pts in 13 games last year.  Here's my take on that:  After not playing most of the season, when he got his chances he was running on adrenaline.  Problem is, once that adrenaline rubs off in a full-time NHL role, his main deficiency (skating) would probably prevent him from being 10pts/13gms effective over the long term. 

Leafs are just way too loaded on wing- saying he's no closer to a full time NHL gig is only true because the Leafs improved markedly over that time span.  IMO, on about half of the teams in the league, he'd have a 3rd line winger job in the NHL today.  I'd still rate him higher than the three you mentioned- while they have upside that probably puts them closer to 2nd line winger territory, they are MUCH farther from the NHL (except for maybe Johnsson)

Offline Frank E

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Re: Ranking Prospects - 2017-18
« Reply #141 on: August 24, 2017, 11:00:32 AM »
I just realized that Leivo went ahead of Dermott. That's pretty questionable.

The Leivo situation is just weird.  I understood the Corrado thing, because that guy was barely an NHLer.

I understand the Leafs hardly had any injuries last season, and that's bound to readjust this season, so maybe that's what they're banking on doing with Leivo.

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Re: Ranking Prospects - 2017-18
« Reply #142 on: August 24, 2017, 11:27:33 AM »
All this talk about having too many wingers and here we are playing Matt Martin 82 games at 2.5M with 3 more seasons to go, and we lose out on potential assets in Holland, Griffith, Leipsic, and probably Leivo and Rychel. They might all be fringe players, but are they all worse than who is plugging up a spot in the lineup and the extra 1-1.5M to spend?

Offline Coco-puffs

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Re: Ranking Prospects - 2017-18
« Reply #143 on: August 24, 2017, 11:32:24 AM »
All this talk about having too many wingers and here we are playing Matt Martin 82 games at 2.5M with 3 more seasons to go, and we lose out on potential assets in Holland, Griffith, Leipsic, and probably Leivo and Rychel. They might all be fringe players, but are they all worse than who is plugging up a spot in the lineup and the extra 1-1.5M to spend?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mAUY1J8KizU

Online herman

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Re: Ranking Prospects - 2017-18
« Reply #144 on: August 25, 2017, 08:11:15 AM »
PPP: 6. Connor Brown

TLN: 13. Calle Rosen

Ca-li Ro-say-en is apparently the best skater ever.
« Last Edit: August 25, 2017, 09:09:18 AM by herman »

Offline Bender

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Re: Ranking Prospects - 2017-18
« Reply #145 on: August 25, 2017, 08:49:30 AM »
PPP: 6. Connor Brown

Wonder how he'll do if given more opportunities. I feel like he's had to claw his way to get to where he is now, I'd like to see him crack 45pts.
"They say you can judge a man by the company he keeps. So here is the professor's oldest friend, a grotesque, stinking lobster." - Bender

Online herman

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Re: Ranking Prospects - 2017-18
« Reply #146 on: August 25, 2017, 09:04:48 AM »
Wonder how he'll do if given more opportunities. I feel like he's had to claw his way to get to where he is now, I'd like to see him crack 45pts.

What more opportunity can you give him outside of a Marner/Nylander injury at this point? In order to crack 45 pts, he needs to play opposite someone other than Komarov and less defensive minutes. I don't mind keeping his numbers and $ suppressed. A JvR/Bozak/Komarov trade doesn't really open space for Brown, other than maybe slotting Nylander into the secondary scoring line.

Absent those three, #5 on this list, Kapanen, rises to greater prominence too and fulfills a similar niche to Brown. Brown/Hyman are really good utility pieces (and good pros) for our roster in that they can play up and down the lineup, but they're also the types of players general managers in the past have hamstrung their teams with after successful (post)seasons with loyalty contracts. We're re-upping them at the right time.

Brown is Kunitz/Cheechoo. He's got the skill and speed to keep up with the line drivers and complement them with scoring, but he can't do it on his own. Perfectly fine depth, and a steal of a pick from the 6th round, but ultimately expendable when the time comes.
« Last Edit: August 25, 2017, 09:06:39 AM by herman »

Offline Frank E

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Re: Ranking Prospects - 2017-18
« Reply #147 on: August 25, 2017, 10:15:43 AM »
Wonder how he'll do if given more opportunities. I feel like he's had to claw his way to get to where he is now, I'd like to see him crack 45pts.

What more opportunity can you give him outside of a Marner/Nylander injury at this point? In order to crack 45 pts, he needs to play opposite someone other than Komarov and less defensive minutes. I don't mind keeping his numbers and $ suppressed. A JvR/Bozak/Komarov trade doesn't really open space for Brown, other than maybe slotting Nylander into the secondary scoring line.

Absent those three, #5 on this list, Kapanen, rises to greater prominence too and fulfills a similar niche to Brown. Brown/Hyman are really good utility pieces (and good pros) for our roster in that they can play up and down the lineup, but they're also the types of players general managers in the past have hamstrung their teams with after successful (post)seasons with loyalty contracts. We're re-upping them at the right time.

Brown is Kunitz/Cheechoo. He's got the skill and speed to keep up with the line drivers and complement them with scoring, but he can't do it on his own. Perfectly fine depth, and a steal of a pick from the 6th round, but ultimately expendable when the time comes.

I think that Connor Brown's production given his limited ice time was pretty remarkable. 

EVTOI/game - 17th
SHTOI/game - 8th
PPTOI/game - 12th

Given that, he was 4th on the team in even strength goals:

1.  Matthews - 32
2.  JVR - 23
3.  Kadri - 20
4.  Brown - 17
5.  Marner - 15
6.  Nylander - 13

Kunitz had 9 last season.

I get that his shooting % might be unsustainable, but I think his ice-time was pretty low given his production and PK responsibilities. 

Online herman

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Re: Ranking Prospects - 2017-18
« Reply #148 on: August 25, 2017, 02:39:02 PM »
All this talk about having too many wingers and here we are playing Matt Martin 82 games at 2.5M with 3 more seasons to go, and we lose out on potential assets in Holland, Griffith, Leipsic, and probably Leivo and Rychel. They might all be fringe players, but are they all worse than who is plugging up a spot in the lineup and the extra 1-1.5M to spend?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mAUY1J8KizU

https://www.reddit.com/r/leafs/comments/6vyryt/the_matt_martin_debate/

Just wanted to say that I had no involvement in this.

Online herman

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Re: Ranking Prospects - 2017-18
« Reply #149 on: August 25, 2017, 02:54:02 PM »
I think that Connor Brown's production given his limited ice time was pretty remarkable. 

EVTOI/game - 17th
SHTOI/game - 8th
PPTOI/game - 12th

Given that, he was 4th on the team in even strength goals:

1.  Matthews - 32
2.  JVR - 23
3.  Kadri - 20
4.  Brown - 17
5.  Marner - 15
6.  Nylander - 13

Kunitz had 9 last season.

I get that his shooting % might be unsustainable, but I think his ice-time was pretty low given his production and PK responsibilities.

Yeah it was one of the those rookie seasons we'd normally be over the moon about, except Nylander, Marner, and Matthews happened at the same time (and largely fueled Brown's performance).

Brown had 29 EV pts.
LineEV PtsTOI%
Kadri1141.81%
Matthews1333.76%
Bozak36.86%
4th24.88%

Source: hockey-reference, leftwinglock

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Re: Ranking Prospects - 2017-18
« Reply #149 on: August 25, 2017, 02:54:02 PM »