Author Topic: Ranking Prospects - 2017-18  (Read 13782 times)

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Offline Zee

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Re: Ranking Prospects - 2017-18
« Reply #45 on: July 28, 2017, 01:16:33 PM »
Out of that list, the name that sticks out as never going to reach beyond his current standing is Valiev, who is at this point probably an average AHL defenseman and with other options available, I don't see him sniffing the NHL again through Toronto. 

Everyone else on the list probably can still sniff the NHL (if they aren't already there), even though I doubt more than 5 of the players listed below #8 are full-time NHLers during their career.  (Some others will get call-ups, but will not be everyday players.  Some of the wingers probably won't get a sniff of the Maple Leafs, but on teams with less winger depth they may see it down the road)

Anyways, my ranking:

Auston Matthews
William Nylander
Mitch Marner
Morgan Rielly
Timothy Liljegren
Kasperi Kapanen
Connor Brown
Connor Carrick
Carl Grundstrom
Travis Dermott
Adam Brooks
Josh Leivo
Andreas Borgman
Miro Aaltonen
Nikita Soshnikov
Jeremy Bracco
Joseph Woll
Kerby Rychel
Calle Rosen
Andreas Johnsson
Andrew Nielsen
Garret Sparks
Yegor Korshkov
Eemeli Rasanen
Dmytro Timashov

Are you saying Liljegren should make the team this season?

Offline Coco-puffs

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Re: Ranking Prospects - 2017-18
« Reply #46 on: July 28, 2017, 02:27:04 PM »
Out of that list, the name that sticks out as never going to reach beyond his current standing is Valiev, who is at this point probably an average AHL defenseman and with other options available, I don't see him sniffing the NHL again through Toronto. 

Everyone else on the list probably can still sniff the NHL (if they aren't already there), even though I doubt more than 5 of the players listed below #8 are full-time NHLers during their career.  (Some others will get call-ups, but will not be everyday players.  Some of the wingers probably won't get a sniff of the Maple Leafs, but on teams with less winger depth they may see it down the road)

Anyways, my ranking:

Auston Matthews
William Nylander
Mitch Marner
Morgan Rielly
Timothy Liljegren
Kasperi Kapanen
Connor Brown
Connor Carrick
Carl Grundstrom
Travis Dermott
Adam Brooks
Josh Leivo
Andreas Borgman
Miro Aaltonen
Nikita Soshnikov
Jeremy Bracco
Joseph Woll
Kerby Rychel
Calle Rosen
Andreas Johnsson
Andrew Nielsen
Garret Sparks
Yegor Korshkov
Eemeli Rasanen
Dmytro Timashov

Are you saying Liljegren should make the team this season?

Nope.  The list is not a ranking of each player as they sit exactly today, but a ranking of them as prospects (even if they are already in the NHL) including their progression towards their potential.  Hence, two years ago William Nylander was ranked #2 ahead of Gardiner and Kadri but he wasn't yet NHL ready. 

Similarily, while Connor Brown is a better player than Kapanen today, Kapanen still has time to take one or two big steps in his development while Connor Brown has reached the incremental stages of his development (room for small improvements, but most of his development is done by this age).  Hence I have Kapanen higher than him.


Offline herman

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Re: Ranking Prospects - 2017-18
« Reply #47 on: July 28, 2017, 02:42:39 PM »
Out of that list, the name that sticks out as never going to reach beyond his current standing is Valiev, who is at this point probably an average AHL defenseman and with other options available, I don't see him sniffing the NHL again through Toronto. 

I agree.

Anyways, my ranking:

Auston Matthews
William Nylander
Mitch Marner
Morgan Rielly
Timothy Liljegren
Kasperi Kapanen
Connor Brown
Connor Carrick
Carl Grundstrom
Travis Dermott
Adam Brooks
Josh Leivo
Andreas Borgman
Miro Aaltonen
Nikita Soshnikov
Jeremy Bracco
Joseph Woll
Kerby Rychel
Calle Rosen
Andreas Johnsson
Andrew Nielsen
Garret Sparks
Yegor Korshkov
Eemeli Rasanen
Dmytro Timashov

The top of our list is very similar (not that I've written mine down or anything). In the middle and bottom, I have Timashov, Johnsson, Korshkov in the middle, and Soshnikov, Aaltonen, Rychel towards the bottom. I think my rankings tend towards top-9 viability, rather than just NHL-ing. So someone like Rychel and Soshnikov have a really good likelihood of sticking on a fourth line due to play style, whereas Timashov and Johnsson really have to push for a line with scoring opportunities and might be less likely to make it.

Offline Coco-puffs

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Re: Ranking Prospects - 2017-18
« Reply #48 on: July 28, 2017, 03:24:02 PM »
Out of that list, the name that sticks out as never going to reach beyond his current standing is Valiev, who is at this point probably an average AHL defenseman and with other options available, I don't see him sniffing the NHL again through Toronto. 

I agree.

Anyways, my ranking:

Auston Matthews
William Nylander
Mitch Marner
Morgan Rielly
Timothy Liljegren
Kasperi Kapanen
Connor Brown
Connor Carrick
Carl Grundstrom
Travis Dermott
Adam Brooks
Josh Leivo
Andreas Borgman
Miro Aaltonen
Nikita Soshnikov
Jeremy Bracco
Joseph Woll
Kerby Rychel
Calle Rosen
Andreas Johnsson
Andrew Nielsen
Garret Sparks
Yegor Korshkov
Eemeli Rasanen
Dmytro Timashov

The top of our list is very similar (not that I've written mine down or anything). In the middle and bottom, I have Timashov, Johnsson, Korshkov in the middle, and Soshnikov, Aaltonen, Rychel towards the bottom. I think my rankings tend towards top-9 viability, rather than just NHL-ing. So someone like Rychel and Soshnikov have a really good likelihood of sticking on a fourth line due to play style, whereas Timashov and Johnsson really have to push for a line with scoring opportunities and might be less likely to make it.

Yeah, our philosiphies on where to place 4th line territory but closer to NHL vs Top 9 territory but unlikely to make it is a bit different.  But on some of the players you mentioned I don't see them the same way as you:

Soshnikov - He's already a 4th line player if he can stay healthy (aside from us having too much winger depth).  The question is, can he be the 8th or 9th forward in your top 9 doing grunt work (like Komarov/Hyman).  His potential is still above a 4th liner.  For that reason, I find it difficult to put a player who has a low probability of making it ahead of him. 

Timashov - I like his skill alot.  But I think the probability of him making it is quite low.  Probably lower than your outlook.  I do hope I'm wrong.

Aaltonen - I don't see him as a 4th line ceiling type of player.  I do think he has much more offensive skill / speed that he could fill in in a sheltered scoring role (ie Bozak's spot in the lineup).  I do think they signed him specifically to be able to call up a center who can actually provide some scoring should injuries mount.  Our skilled center depth basically goes Matthews - Kadri - Bozak - Nylander - Aaltonen - Brooks. 

Rychel - I don't think his ceiling is just as a 4th liner.  Much of what I said about Sosh applies, but I do think he's a step behind Sosh in terms of attaining it hence he's a few spots lower.

Offline herman

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Re: Ranking Prospects - 2017-18
« Reply #49 on: July 28, 2017, 04:45:23 PM »
Yeah, our philosiphies on where to place 4th line territory but closer to NHL vs Top 9 territory but unlikely to make it is a bit different.  But on some of the players you mentioned I don't see them the same way as you:

Our difference of opinion might also have to do with preferred playstyles too. It's fun to discuss!

Soshnikov - He's already a 4th line player if he can stay healthy (aside from us having too much winger depth).  The question is, can he be the 8th or 9th forward in your top 9 doing grunt work (like Komarov/Hyman).  His potential is still above a 4th liner.  For that reason, I find it difficult to put a player who has a low probability of making it ahead of him. 

Sosh is great for PK and stirring poop emojis. What I don't really like about his game is his lack of ability to generate or complement. What he does instead is shoot, shoot, shoot, from any and everywhere. It's a good shot, but unless he's willing to take the puck into better spots than the blue line or half wall, we have better options.

Timashov - I like his skill alot.  But I think the probability of him making it is quite low.  Probably lower than your outlook.  I do hope I'm wrong.

Speaking of better options: I really like Timashov's puck patience. He also has crazy strength for his size (like Kulemin, but with hands). I'm looking for a breakout season from him this year as he got squashed in the crush of wingers these past two years. It's really too bad Nylander didn't get much of a go at his last WJ, because he and Timashov had some magic zip going.

Aaltonen - I don't see him as a 4th line ceiling type of player.  I do think he has much more offensive skill / speed that he could fill in in a sheltered scoring role (ie Bozak's spot in the lineup).  I do think they signed him specifically to be able to call up a center who can actually provide some scoring should injuries mount.  Our skilled center depth basically goes Matthews - Kadri - Bozak - Nylander - Aaltonen - Brooks. 

I haven't seen enough of him to truly comment, but I agree with you as his numbers look like he would be very adequate call up depth in an area of weakness for the Leafs.

Rychel - I don't think his ceiling is just as a 4th liner.  Much of what I said about Sosh applies, but I do think he's a step behind Sosh in terms of attaining it hence he's a few spots lower.

I see Rychel as plug-in depth, 4th line if his defensive game steps up a bit. His wheels are not optimal for the way our team plays, whereas Korshkov and Johnsson both have a lot of get-up-and-go. Johnsson in particular has been a defensive standout for the Marlies (according to Justin Bourne).

Offline Nik the Trik

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Re: Ranking Prospects - 2017-18
« Reply #50 on: July 28, 2017, 04:47:24 PM »

Korshkov - I'm not entirely sure he exists.
Give a man the reputation of an early riser and he can sleep 'til noon
-Mark Twain

Offline herman

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Re: Ranking Prospects - 2017-18
« Reply #51 on: July 28, 2017, 04:56:03 PM »

Korshkov - I'm not entirely sure he exists.

I saw a video of him!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYgcUDillVM
but Photoshop is so powerful these days.

Offline Nik the Trik

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Re: Ranking Prospects - 2017-18
« Reply #52 on: July 28, 2017, 05:01:01 PM »
Give a man the reputation of an early riser and he can sleep 'til noon
-Mark Twain

Offline herman

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Re: Ranking Prospects - 2017-18
« Reply #53 on: July 28, 2017, 05:06:58 PM »

Offline Nik the Trik

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Re: Ranking Prospects - 2017-18
« Reply #54 on: July 28, 2017, 05:12:51 PM »
Isn't that Vladislav Kara?

Fun fact: Vladislav Kara is "Doctor Griffin" loosely translated into Russian.
Give a man the reputation of an early riser and he can sleep 'til noon
-Mark Twain

Offline herman

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Re: Ranking Prospects - 2017-18
« Reply #55 on: July 28, 2017, 05:31:32 PM »
Isn't that Vladislav Kara?

Fun fact: Vladislav Kara is "Doctor Griffin" loosely translated into Russian.

Oh this is his video then: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YpkX-5VXWQs

Offline herman

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Re: Ranking Prospects - 2017-18
« Reply #56 on: July 29, 2017, 11:36:21 PM »
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EHQEyX4vGnI

Liljegren and Woll were in action today for a WJSS match.
Woll played the first half and ceded the net with 1 GA on 13 shots.
Liljegren had a goal and an assist.

There was also this gaffe early on in the game where Liljegren keeps the gap on his man, but takes out his defense partner in the process for an open shot and goal against:
www.twitter.com/TheDraftAnalyst/status/891401247902900224
« Last Edit: July 29, 2017, 11:40:05 PM by herman »

Offline herman

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Re: Ranking Prospects - 2017-18
« Reply #57 on: July 31, 2017, 09:08:37 AM »
25. Rinat Valiev

And Valiev makes the cut! I see him as injury replacement at best. He looked pretty good at times last last season (he can skate, hold the puck, shoot for rebounds), but his consistency took a hit this past season (injuries contributed, but so did getting obviously outplayed by Dermott).

Offline Bullfrog

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Re: Ranking Prospects - 2017-18
« Reply #58 on: July 31, 2017, 10:47:38 AM »
Also 25. Joseph Woll

Quote
Our first goaltender on the list is one of our most punnable prospects, and was getting scored on by Auston Matthews before it was cool. Joseph Woll was the first goalie drafted by the Toronto Maple Leafs since Antoine Bibeau in 2013

Offline herman

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Re: Ranking Prospects - 2017-18
« Reply #59 on: July 31, 2017, 11:06:34 AM »
whaaaaaaattttt....

TMLfans.ca

Re: Ranking Prospects - 2017-18
« Reply #59 on: July 31, 2017, 11:06:34 AM »