Author Topic: Colorado granted permission to talk to Dubas  (Read 5238 times)

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Online Peter D.

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Re: Colorado granted permission to talk to Dubas
« Reply #15 on: May 24, 2017, 01:03:32 PM »
I don't want to see Lou go any time soon, and I'd prefer Hunter as GM than Dubas down the road.  So losing Dubas doesn't bother me as much as others.

Offline jdh1

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Re: Colorado granted permission to talk to Dubas
« Reply #16 on: May 24, 2017, 01:15:55 PM »
I don't want to see Lou go any time soon, and I'd prefer Hunter as GM than Dubas down the road.  So losing Dubas doesn't bother me as much as others.
I,m with you there,what has Dubas done to warrant being the next GM right now at his tender age...better Hunter and then Dubas if it could be worked out that way.

Online herman

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Re: Colorado granted permission to talk to Dubas
« Reply #17 on: May 24, 2017, 03:44:19 PM »
Can you guys elaborate a bit further about why you value Hunter as GM over Dubas? I'm in the other camp and I'd like to know more. Thanks!

Online Zee

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Re: Colorado granted permission to talk to Dubas
« Reply #18 on: May 24, 2017, 03:51:32 PM »
The Leafs wouldn't stand in the way of a guy who has a chance to move up to a better position in another organization.  I get that Dubas is a sharp young mind, but Shanahan found him due to his work in the OHL and there will be/are plenty of up and coming guys all the time.  If and when they lose Dubas they can bring in the "next one" from junior hockey as an assistant to whoever the GM currently is (presumably Hunter if the rumors are true).  If they're not ready to hand over the GM duties to Dubas right now, then they'll let him explore other options if he wants to go.

Offline disco

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Re: Colorado granted permission to talk to Dubas
« Reply #19 on: May 24, 2017, 03:53:58 PM »
(Stastny and O'Reilly come to mind...)
"I'm here for (6) more years. Then I'm gonna stay for two more because we'll be really good." - Coach Mike Babcock

Offline Highlander

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Re: Colorado granted permission to talk to Dubas
« Reply #20 on: May 24, 2017, 04:38:38 PM »
This would be a reason I'm not as thrilled about bringing Lou on board.  Beyond having to pay a decent draft pick for him (thanks NHL) potentially losing a great young hockey mind in the process.  Not thrilled at all.

Lou's 74 and is about to go into the 3rd and final year of his contract. There's really no reason to lose somebody like Dubas over keeping him for 1 more season.

Let's not forget too that Lou himself basically said the next Leafs GM job is Dubas' to lose at his introductory press conference.

That's what's concerning to me.  Why not just say no to allowing him to interview.  Tell him he has the job.  If Dubas insists on getting the GM role, move Lou into a "Senior Advisor to the GM" title.
LK that is not good enough Lou should be "Supreme Godhead of Hockey Ops" for eternity
"We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our children"
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Online Frank E

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Re: Colorado granted permission to talk to Dubas
« Reply #21 on: May 24, 2017, 05:31:14 PM »
Can you guys elaborate a bit further about why you value Hunter as GM over Dubas? I'm in the other camp and I'd like to know more. Thanks!

I'm not sure Dubas has the experience yet to deal with the very experienced agents dealing with 8 figure deals...the Leafs really haven't been through that process with the current crew. 

If Dubas knows what's good for him, he might want to hang around Lou a little longer and grow into the job...I'm not sure that Colorado has the people that would mentor him nearly as well.

But I was young once too, and I thought I knew more than I did...so I don't blame him for accepting the flattering that is an interview request...assuming that he did want to talk to Colorado.
« Last Edit: May 24, 2017, 05:33:08 PM by Frank E »

Offline L K

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Re: Colorado granted permission to talk to Dubas
« Reply #22 on: May 24, 2017, 05:38:42 PM »
Can you guys elaborate a bit further about why you value Hunter as GM over Dubas? I'm in the other camp and I'd like to know more. Thanks!

I'm not sure Dubas has the experience yet to deal with the very experienced agents dealing with 8 figure deals...the Leafs really haven't been through that process with the current crew. 

If Dubas knows what's good for him, he might want to hang around Lou a little longer and grow into the job...I'm not sure that Colorado has the people that would mentor him nearly as well.

But I was young once too, and I thought I knew more than I did...so I don't blame him for accepting the flattering that is an interview request...assuming that he did want to talk to Colorado.

I think experience is fair but what does Mark Hunters experience with not paying junior hockey players provide as being more worthy of being an NHL GM?

Online herman

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Re: Colorado granted permission to talk to Dubas
« Reply #23 on: May 24, 2017, 05:45:06 PM »
Dubas has been a scout, a player agent, and a GM in the OHL. He also mentioned that he would have been disappointed if the other GMs didn't try to give him the runaround his first few goes.

Online Frank E

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Re: Colorado granted permission to talk to Dubas
« Reply #24 on: May 24, 2017, 05:47:38 PM »
Can you guys elaborate a bit further about why you value Hunter as GM over Dubas? I'm in the other camp and I'd like to know more. Thanks!

I'm not sure Dubas has the experience yet to deal with the very experienced agents dealing with 8 figure deals...the Leafs really haven't been through that process with the current crew. 

If Dubas knows what's good for him, he might want to hang around Lou a little longer and grow into the job...I'm not sure that Colorado has the people that would mentor him nearly as well.

But I was young once too, and I thought I knew more than I did...so I don't blame him for accepting the flattering that is an interview request...assuming that he did want to talk to Colorado.

I think experience is fair but what does Mark Hunters experience with not paying junior hockey players provide as being more worthy of being an NHL GM?

You're right...and my comment wasn't really Hunter > Dubas...it was more a comment about why Dubas might not be as ready for the big chair as some may want him to be.

But, again, you're right that Hunter really doesn't have that kind of experience either.  I think I might want Lou around for another year or so after this contract.

Online Frank E

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Re: Colorado granted permission to talk to Dubas
« Reply #25 on: May 24, 2017, 05:52:56 PM »
Dubas has been a scout, a player agent, and a GM in the OHL. He also mentioned that he would have been disappointed if the other GMs didn't try to give him the runaround his first few goes.

I have to think there's a lot more to the job than answering trade scenario phone calls though...really, this is a billion dollar company with some pretty important steps to take over the next few years, given their performance this year.  There's a lot of expectations here now in Toronto.

This really isn't something I'd be eager to put in the lap of a 30 year old without a ton of support. 

I'm not sure how old you are herman, but it wasn't that long ago that I was 30 years old, and I'd make different decisions today than I did then.

EDIT:  This ain't Arizona.

Offline jdh1

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Re: Colorado granted permission to talk to Dubas
« Reply #26 on: May 24, 2017, 05:55:01 PM »
Can you guys elaborate a bit further about why you value Hunter as GM over Dubas? I'm in the other camp and I'd like to know more. Thanks!

I,m thinking that Hunter has about 20 years of more hockey experience than Dubas,played in the NHL ,I think with Montreal as well,maybe even under Bowman,s coaching.He's been in hockey a long time,seems to know talent.

However saying all that Dubas might be the man in the long run.

Online bustaheims

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Re: Colorado granted permission to talk to Dubas
« Reply #27 on: May 24, 2017, 08:23:40 PM »
I,m thinking that Hunter has about 20 years of more hockey experience than Dubas,played in the NHL ,I think with Montreal as well,maybe even under Bowman,s coaching.He's been in hockey a long time,seems to know talent.

However saying all that Dubas might be the man in the long run.

History has provided many examples that show that having played the game professionally does not provide any real advantage or insight when it comes to coaching or managing a team. There's been many more former players that were failures than successes.
"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

Online herman

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Re: Colorado granted permission to talk to Dubas
« Reply #28 on: May 24, 2017, 08:28:08 PM »
Dubas has been a scout, a player agent, and a GM in the OHL. He also mentioned that he would have been disappointed if the other GMs didn't try to give him the runaround his first few goes.

I have to think there's a lot more to the job than answering trade scenario phone calls though...really, this is a billion dollar company with some pretty important steps to take over the next few years, given their performance this year.  There's a lot of expectations here now in Toronto.

This really isn't something I'd be eager to put in the lap of a 30 year old without a ton of support. 

I'm not sure how old you are herman, but it wasn't that long ago that I was 30 years old, and I'd make different decisions today than I did then.

EDIT:  This ain't Arizona.

Honestly, I agree with all of that in general for 30 year olds (I'm in that demographic, btw -- could you tell by the pop culture references?), but I've seen it work and I've seen older management appreciate the new viewpoints of a humble young'un's suggestions.

I'd also say Dubas is probably an exception. He is remarkably even keeled, open to all the information, he has operated both sides of the old school and new school and has a knack for unifying the two. That last point is where I put more eggs in the Dubas basket. I like that he draws inspiration constantly from other sports management (baseball, basketball, both several steps in stats and management ahead of hockey) and has a good network of connections in those leagues. I resonate with his philosophy of work, finding sustainable advantage, and developing with evidence-based research instead of just what every hockey team has ever done in the past.

I don't think Dubas would be unsupported. Pretty much everyone else on staff, under his purview and ancillary to hockey operations has been doing this for awhile and he's the kind of manager that welcomes feedback and support and always pushes the credit to the staff and players.

Hunter, much quieter, does a lot of this too. He also welcomes opposing views to reach the optimal solution. He has the conviction and wherewithal to stand up to Babcock's pressure on personnel. I don't think he'd be a bad option.

Online Peter D.

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Re: Colorado granted permission to talk to Dubas
« Reply #29 on: May 25, 2017, 09:05:53 AM »
Can you guys elaborate a bit further about why you value Hunter as GM over Dubas? I'm in the other camp and I'd like to know more. Thanks!

Admittedly, I don't have much use for advanced stats, which is a big part of what Dubas is known for, so that takes the lustre off of him for me.  I also prefer Hunter's talent evaluation abilities.  Dubas seems like a good complementary piece to do the grunt work in terms of working the phones and laying the ground work on trades and contracts.  But when it comes to pulling the final trigger on a deal or having the final say on the draft floor, I'd rather Hunter be the one calling the shots.

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Re: Colorado granted permission to talk to Dubas
« Reply #29 on: May 25, 2017, 09:05:53 AM »