Author Topic: Zaitsev's extension made official  (Read 3294 times)

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Offline Bullfrog

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Re: Zaitsev's extension made official
« Reply #15 on: May 02, 2017, 05:00:12 PM »
I'm good with that contract. I was really impressed with his play. He's the only right-handed offensive threat we have on the blueline.

Offline sickbeast

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Re: Zaitsev's extension made official
« Reply #16 on: May 02, 2017, 09:22:01 PM »
I agree with Don Cherry.  Brutal +/-.  Horrible defensively.  Invisible in the playoffs and on the ice for a whole bunch of goals against versus Washington.

Offline disco

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Re: Zaitsev's extension made official
« Reply #17 on: May 02, 2017, 10:17:06 PM »
I agree with Don Cherry.  Brutal +/-.  Horrible defensively.  Invisible in the playoffs and on the ice for a whole bunch of goals against versus Washington.

Invisible? Came off a fresh concussion and tossed into the playoff fire. Completely off by his own admission, didn't feel himself until near the end, which were several 2-1 games. "Horrible", that's a big stretch. Plus/minus? Reilly -20, Zaitsev -22. Like Morgan, relied on heavily during this season to play against other team's best. Not an accurate stat I believe for a team that played bad team defense and got better as the season progressed. And apparently, Leaf management disagrees with you.
"I'm here for (6) more years. Then I'm gonna stay for two more because we'll be really good." - Coach Mike Babcock

Offline sickbeast

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Re: Zaitsev's extension made official
« Reply #18 on: May 02, 2017, 10:27:44 PM »
I agree with Don Cherry.  Brutal +/-.  Horrible defensively.  Invisible in the playoffs and on the ice for a whole bunch of goals against versus Washington.

Invisible? Came off a fresh concussion and tossed into the playoff fire. Completely off by his own admission, didn't feel himself until near the end, which were several 2-1 games. "Horrible", that's a big stretch. Plus/minus? Reilly -20, Zaitsev -22. Like Morgan, relied on heavily during this season to play against other team's best. Not an accurate stat I believe for a team that played bad team defense and got better as the season progressed. And apparently, Leaf management disagrees with you.
That's fine.  I was wrong about Andersen and I could be wrong again.  In fairness, Reimer had almost identical stats to Andersen this past season, so in a sense I was "right" about that.  The Leafs could have signed Reimer without sacrificing any draft picks.

I will say that Zeitsev is very slick with the puck and he is a great passer.  I'm not saying he's a bad player.  I'm saying he by no means deserves a 7 year contract at $4+ million per season.  It could turn out to be a real albatross and he might wind up as a resident of Robidas Island.

Offline L K

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Re: Zaitsev's extension made official
« Reply #19 on: May 03, 2017, 08:07:17 AM »
The playoff performance has me a little wary but aside from idiots like Don Cherry who look at his +/- as the defining level of his play, he's a decent mid-pairing defenseman who still has the potential to maybe become more of a 2/3 guy instead of a 3/4 guy.  I think that's worth the risk and if he achieves that, he will be well underpaid at 4.5M.

Offline herman

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Re: Zaitsev's extension made official
« Reply #20 on: May 03, 2017, 08:18:22 AM »
Brutal +/-.

www.twitter.com/mirtle/status/859465839216660482

Hit up the whole interview (in Google Chrome for the loose translation). Zaitsev is hilarious in a straight-man role, at the same time providing a bit of an outsider viewpoint to the group in the dressing room.

Offline Zee

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Re: Zaitsev's extension made official
« Reply #21 on: May 03, 2017, 08:50:57 AM »
I agree with Don Cherry.  Brutal +/-.  Horrible defensively.  Invisible in the playoffs and on the ice for a whole bunch of goals against versus Washington.

Invisible? Came off a fresh concussion and tossed into the playoff fire. Completely off by his own admission, didn't feel himself until near the end, which were several 2-1 games. "Horrible", that's a big stretch. Plus/minus? Reilly -20, Zaitsev -22. Like Morgan, relied on heavily during this season to play against other team's best. Not an accurate stat I believe for a team that played bad team defense and got better as the season progressed. And apparently, Leaf management disagrees with you.
That's fine.  I was wrong about Andersen and I could be wrong again.  In fairness, Reimer had almost identical stats to Andersen this past season, so in a sense I was "right" about that.  The Leafs could have signed Reimer without sacrificing any draft picks.

Oh really?  Talk to me when Reimer puts up those "identical stats" after playing more than 50 games in a season....something he's never done in his career.  Andersen has played > 50 games in 2 different NHL seasons now and started over 60 this past season.  There's a huge difference.

Offline CarltonTheBear

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Re: Zaitsev's extension made official
« Reply #22 on: May 03, 2017, 09:23:11 AM »
Mirtle/The Athletic's piece on the contract (it's a free preview article so check it out non-subscribers):

https://theathletic.com/57670/2017/05/02/mirtle-why-did-the-maple-leafs-sign-a-25-year-old-rookie-defenceman-until-2024/

In it, Mirtle basically agrees that it's an overpayment, but defends the contract anyway. However, an anonymous "sharp hockey exec" that Mirtle spoke to disagreed:

Quote
“Why would the Leafs give a seven-year deal to a good but outside-the-core player just as they enter into an era when free agents will find Toronto very attractive, seemingly limiting their later options for no good reason?” they said. “Zaitsev presumably would have accepted a shorter deal. There seems no logical/strategic/analytical basis for the deal.”

I bet it was Dubas talking.

Offline Nik the Trik

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Re: Zaitsev's extension made official
« Reply #23 on: May 03, 2017, 09:28:25 AM »

I think it's a pretty big presumption to make that Zaitsev would have signed a shorter term deal for the same money.
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Offline CarltonTheBear

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Re: Zaitsev's extension made official
« Reply #24 on: May 03, 2017, 09:40:25 AM »

I think it's a pretty big presumption to make that Zaitsev would have signed a shorter term deal for the same money.

If the Leafs put their foot down and said they wouldn't go more than 5 years I just have a hard time seeing what kind of argument/comparables Zaitsev's camp could have made to justify more than a $4.5mil cap hit. Zaitsev's still a RFA so even with arbitration rights next summer and UFA status being 2 years away Toronto still had more control here. Granted I'm not sure how they justified the deal as is so obviously I'm the wrong guy to talk to about that.

There are times where you HAVE to go 7 years to get a deal done. I don't think that was the case here. So it makes me think that the Leafs wanted a 7-year term just as much as Zaitsev did, which concerns me a little.
« Last Edit: May 03, 2017, 09:42:29 AM by CarltonTheBear »

Offline Nik the Trik

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Re: Zaitsev's extension made official
« Reply #25 on: May 03, 2017, 10:01:17 AM »
If the Leafs put their foot down and said they wouldn't go more than 5 years I just have a hard time seeing what kind of argument/comparables Zaitsev's camp could have made to justify more than a $4.5mil cap hit. Zaitsev's still a RFA so even with arbitration rights next summer and UFA status being 2 years away Toronto still had more control here.

Zaitsev also had the KHL in his back pocket, an especially attractive option now that it would also mean the Olympics as well.

Putting your foot down is only an option if you're really prepared to let it get that far. Are the Leafs willing to take a significant step backwards next year by losing Zaitsev without any particularly appealing options to replace him? Is the difference between Zaitsev at 7 years and at 5 years really worth wading into a terrible UFA market? Getting into a Shattenkirk bidding war you're not likely to win? Exploring a trade market that pegs Taylor Hall's value at Adam Larsson?

There's a hidden cost to the fast success the Leafs had and it's the pressure of wanting to keep a team together.
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Offline herman

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Re: Zaitsev's extension made official
« Reply #26 on: May 03, 2017, 10:09:39 AM »
Going longer term to suppress the AAV is less of a problem with Zaitsev and European free agents under this CBA because teams can just back out of the contracts at zero cap hit (pay out real money though). They can 'go home' more readily than a North American player could.
« Last Edit: May 03, 2017, 10:26:15 AM by herman »

Offline Nik the Trik

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Re: Zaitsev's extension made official
« Reply #27 on: May 03, 2017, 10:19:12 AM »

As for comparables that Zaitsev could use to his advantage, I think Jason Demers is an obvious one. If Zaitsev thought his UFA years were worth more than 4.5 each, it's hard to look at any comparable signing and say he's crazy.
Give a man the reputation of an early riser and he can sleep 'til noon
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Offline bustaheims

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Re: Zaitsev's extension made official
« Reply #28 on: May 03, 2017, 10:35:59 AM »
As for comparables that Zaitsev could use to his advantage, I think Jason Demers is an obvious one. If Zaitsev thought his UFA years were worth more than 4.5 each, it's hard to look at any comparable signing and say he's crazy.

Agreed. Looking at the guys who have cap hits within $500K of Zaitsev, other than a couple guys who hit their stride after signing their current deals and a couple sweetheart contracts, it's mostly guys who I would consider to be of a similar calibre to Zaitsev.
"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

Offline sickbeast

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Re: Zaitsev's extension made official
« Reply #29 on: May 03, 2017, 05:44:06 PM »
I agree with Don Cherry.  Brutal +/-.  Horrible defensively.  Invisible in the playoffs and on the ice for a whole bunch of goals against versus Washington.

Invisible? Came off a fresh concussion and tossed into the playoff fire. Completely off by his own admission, didn't feel himself until near the end, which were several 2-1 games. "Horrible", that's a big stretch. Plus/minus? Reilly -20, Zaitsev -22. Like Morgan, relied on heavily during this season to play against other team's best. Not an accurate stat I believe for a team that played bad team defense and got better as the season progressed. And apparently, Leaf management disagrees with you.
That's fine.  I was wrong about Andersen and I could be wrong again.  In fairness, Reimer had almost identical stats to Andersen this past season, so in a sense I was "right" about that.  The Leafs could have signed Reimer without sacrificing any draft picks.

Oh really?  Talk to me when Reimer puts up those "identical stats" after playing more than 50 games in a season....something he's never done in his career.  Andersen has played > 50 games in 2 different NHL seasons now and started over 60 this past season.  There's a huge difference.
I could also argue that those sacrificed draft picks could have been the difference between the Leafs making it past Washington or not.  One of them could have turned out to be a legitimate player.  I remember the first round pick they sacrificed was projected to turn out to be quite a good forward.

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Re: Zaitsev's extension made official
« Reply #29 on: May 03, 2017, 05:44:06 PM »