Author Topic: Series thread: Pittsburgh vs Washington  (Read 2835 times)

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Offline Nik the Trik

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Re: Series thread: Pittsburgh vs Washington
« Reply #30 on: May 02, 2017, 10:40:15 PM »
Not from Rob Rossi.   The problem I have is that these champions for justice only show up when it happens to their player.  At some point a step back needs to be taken.  If it happens to your team and you don't like it, then it isn't good if it happens to the other team either.  As fans we can't have it both ways.  If what happened last night is a suspendable offense, then so were the acts that Crosby committed in the last couple of weeks of the season.

That seems like a pretty strange and false equivalency. Crosby hitting Methot in the hand was gory but it was the result of the sort of stick work that virtually every player in the league does that just happened to go wrong. The issue with the hit on Crosby was whether or not you think they deliberately targeted his head. I don't think for the sake of consistency we have to think that the alleged acts are the same thing even if we don't think Niskanen was particularly guilty.

If you wanted to suspend Crosby for the shot between the legs I think that would have been fair but even then I don't think ideological consistency demands we regard headshots and shots to the old John Thomas as being the same thing.
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Offline cabber24

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Re: Series thread: Pittsburgh vs Washington
« Reply #31 on: May 03, 2017, 12:53:26 PM »
http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/video/rossi-ovechkin-should-be-suspended-for-slash-on-crosby~1113591
http://www.upgruv.com/ovechkin-niskanen-crosby-injury-nhl-2388421629.html

Funny, I don't remember this vitriol when Crosby speared a guy in the junk and blew another players finger up.

I'm all for discipline, and for making sure that players are safe, but Crosby's no angel who has gotten away with a couple of egregious acts himself.

There was plenty.

Not from Rob Rossi.   The problem I have is that these champions for justice only show up when it happens to their player.  At some point a step back needs to be taken.  If it happens to your team and you don't like it, then it isn't good if it happens to the other team either.  As fans we can't have it both ways.  If what happened last night is a suspendable offense, then so were the acts that Crosby committed in the last couple of weeks of the season.

Oh I agree. I'm no big fan of Sid nor of double standards where Sid is concerned.

Sid came in to the league bitching and screaming... and he was called a whiner by many but at the end of the day he was right. If the league protected him by better controlling the environment on the ice maybe Sid doesn't get 4 concussions. I think the league should have double standards when it comes to their most prized assets, it's a good business for everyone involved in the league. McDavid already missed half a season, Matthews next?
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Offline Significantly Insignificant

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Re: Series thread: Pittsburgh vs Washington
« Reply #32 on: May 04, 2017, 09:18:12 AM »
Not from Rob Rossi.   The problem I have is that these champions for justice only show up when it happens to their player.  At some point a step back needs to be taken.  If it happens to your team and you don't like it, then it isn't good if it happens to the other team either.  As fans we can't have it both ways.  If what happened last night is a suspendable offense, then so were the acts that Crosby committed in the last couple of weeks of the season.

That seems like a pretty strange and false equivalency. Crosby hitting Methot in the hand was gory but it was the result of the sort of stick work that virtually every player in the league does that just happened to go wrong. The issue with the hit on Crosby was whether or not you think they deliberately targeted his head. I don't think for the sake of consistency we have to think that the alleged acts are the same thing even if we don't think Niskanen was particularly guilty.

If you wanted to suspend Crosby for the shot between the legs I think that would have been fair but even then I don't think ideological consistency demands we regard headshots and shots to the old John Thomas as being the same thing.

Sure, they may not be equivalent as far as the severity of what they did.  The Rossi article has a tone though that what happened to Crosby was deliberate and predatory, and that's why it should be suspendable.  If predatory behavior is suspendable, then deliberately skating over to a guy and spearing him the cockles and muscles is also one of those offences.  I have also seen articles that say that you can't defend what happened to Crosby.  This is all true.   

I may not be making my point very well here, but my feeling is that you can't get on your soap box, and talk about how dirty the Capitals are, and how they planned to take Crosby out of the game, and how this is the sort of predatory behavior that needs to be removed, when we have incidents where Crosby has exhibited that same behavior and the soap box stayed in the closet.

For the most part I wonder why the DOPS gets these cases wrong on such a consistent basis.  Is it because the league is paralyzed by perception?  Is it the pending legal problems with concussions?  Is it the potential fan outrage?  None of these are valid reasons to justify putting a players safety in jeopardy.  Perhaps if fans and media were more consistent in their views on player safety, the NHL would get better at it.

Ultimately, as a fan, I want Crosby in as many games as possible.  If the league, for consistencies sake, has to suspend him for a game, but that suspension is going to help protect him from getting a concussion later, then I say the league does it.  The NHL has in the past managed to get rid of dangerous aspects of the game such as bench clearing brawls, and frequent knee on knee hits.  I know that knee on knee hits still happen, but not with the frequency that they did in the past.  I think we still see in todays game a lot of elbows to the head, and a lot of stick slashes on the wrists.  Stiffer penalties may help remove them.
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Online herman

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Re: Series thread: Pittsburgh vs Washington
« Reply #33 on: May 04, 2017, 12:18:38 PM »
www.twitter.com/MarcPDumont/status/859921845826531328

Offline Nik the Trik

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Re: Series thread: Pittsburgh vs Washington
« Reply #34 on: May 04, 2017, 12:39:40 PM »
Sure, they may not be equivalent as far as the severity of what they did.  The Rossi article has a tone though that what happened to Crosby was deliberate and predatory, and that's why it should be suspendable.  If predatory behavior is suspendable, then deliberately skating over to a guy and spearing him the cockles and muscles is also one of those offences.  I have also seen articles that say that you can't defend what happened to Crosby.  This is all true.   

I may not be making my point very well here, but my feeling is that you can't get on your soap box, and talk about how dirty the Capitals are, and how they planned to take Crosby out of the game, and how this is the sort of predatory behavior that needs to be removed, when we have incidents where Crosby has exhibited that same behavior and the soap box stayed in the closet.

I can't speak to the column you're referencing but again I don't agree. I think whether we like it or not there is a difference if the guy getting hit is Crosby and there is a difference between the idea of a predatory hit and one that's simply illegal. If two guys get mad at each other and they engage in stickwork or one hits another I think that's bad but that's the sort of thing that happens in hockey all the time.

If the case is being made that Crosby was headhunted I do think that's a separate category of thing for us to think about that because a league not stamping out its best players being deliberately injured is one that's not only bad to watch but is practically inviting retaliation in kind.

Truth is that if Crosby spears or commits a major foul on just about anyone he's putting his team at a competitive disadvantage by taking himself off the ice or out of the lineup. It has built in deterrent. Someone deliberately trying to injure Crosby is the opposite of that(especially considering what he'd done in the series to date). The League can and should look at it in a different light.
Give a man the reputation of an early riser and he can sleep 'til noon
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Offline L K

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Re: Series thread: Pittsburgh vs Washington
« Reply #35 on: May 05, 2017, 07:46:48 AM »
www.twitter.com/MarcPDumont/status/859921845826531328

It's funny...and then you look at the right hand column and see Matt Cooke.

Offline Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate

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Re: Series thread: Pittsburgh vs Washington
« Reply #36 on: May 06, 2017, 08:48:04 PM »
I tell you, unless Ovechkin hitches up his pants and gets something done here, he should self-deport to the KHL.

Offline Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate

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Re: Series thread: Pittsburgh vs Washington
« Reply #37 on: May 06, 2017, 09:27:37 PM »
I tell you, unless Ovechkin hitches up his pants and gets something done here, he should self-deport to the KHL.

That'll do for the moment.

Offline hockeyfan1

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Re: Series thread: Pittsburgh vs Washington
« Reply #38 on: May 08, 2017, 10:53:04 PM »
Caps win 5-2.  Series is now even with Game 7 going Wednesday in Washington.  Pretty scary moment there when Crosby jumped headlong into the boards.  Gosh, can't he just avoid his head?  Capitals bumped him pretty good,  playing quite a physical game tonight overall.

Offline princedpw

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Re: Series thread: Pittsburgh vs Washington
« Reply #39 on: May 09, 2017, 06:29:55 AM »
First game of the series I have seen.  Caps dominated the Pens territorially  to a much greater extent than they dominated the leafs in any game IMHO.

Online Heroic Shrimp

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Re: Series thread: Pittsburgh vs Washington
« Reply #40 on: May 09, 2017, 08:08:37 AM »
Supersize my Freedom Fries

Offline Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate

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Re: Series thread: Pittsburgh vs Washington
« Reply #41 on: May 09, 2017, 09:48:08 AM »
How much did that set you back?

Online CarltonTheBear

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Re: Series thread: Pittsburgh vs Washington
« Reply #42 on: May 09, 2017, 11:08:18 AM »
So last night Crosby was knocked pretty hard into the boards (he didn't jump) and went into them head first:


www.twitter.com/PeteBlackburn/status/861739677388349440

A lot of people on social media were wondering why the heck the concussion spotters didn't take him off the ice after that, especially considering that he JUST returned from a concussion. Thankfully, Bill Daly provided a completely rational explanation for that today:

Quote
“Depending on the mechanism of injury, ‘slow to get up’ does not trigger mandatory removal,” NHL deputy commissioner Bill Daly told USA TODAY Sports. “The protocol has to be interpreted literally to mandate a removal. ‘Ice’ as compared to ‘boards’ is in there for a reason. It’s the result of a study on our actual experiences over a number of years. ‘Ice’ has been found to be a predictor of concussions -- ‘boards’ has not been.”

That's Bill Daly, deputy NHL commissioner, telling the world that crashing headfirst into the boards is not a "mechanism of injury" as far as concussions are concerned. Based on their "studies".

Online bustaheims

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Re: Series thread: Pittsburgh vs Washington
« Reply #43 on: May 09, 2017, 11:16:07 AM »
That's Bill Daly, deputy NHL commissioner, telling the world that crashing headfirst into the boards is not a "mechanism of injury" as far as concussions are concerned. Based on their "studies".

Oh, that NHL . . .

I mean, the first part of the statement - being slow to get up does not necessarily mean concussion - I accept. Guys can be slow to get up for a number of reason. But, the rest? Garbage. Absolute garbage.
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Online CarltonTheBear

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Re: Series thread: Pittsburgh vs Washington
« Reply #44 on: May 09, 2017, 11:24:14 AM »
I mean, the first part of the statement - being slow to get up does not necessarily mean concussion - I accept. Guys can be slow to get up for a number of reason. But, the rest? Garbage. Absolute garbage.

Based on their guidelines, if a player is "slow to get up" after a blow to the head via another players shoulder, contact with the ice, or an ungloved fist then the concussion spotter is supposed to pull him off. So basically any head shot except for crashing into the boards. Because the boards are softer than that stuff I guess.

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Re: Series thread: Pittsburgh vs Washington
« Reply #44 on: May 09, 2017, 11:24:14 AM »