Author Topic: Leafs @ Predators - Mar. 30th, 8:00pm - TSN4, Fan 590  (Read 3180 times)

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Offline bustaheims

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Re: Leafs @ Predators - Mar. 30th, 8:00pm - TSN4, Fan 590
« Reply #120 on: March 31, 2017, 08:57:01 AM »
His partner, Zaitsev, wasn't covering anybody.

He went to the front of the net, which is the right play if Martin takes Forsberg. He would have been in position to cut off the cross-crease pass to the open Pred on the other side of the net. Of course, Martin didn't take Forsberg, so, it left Zaitsev without anything to protect against.
"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

Online Kaberle15

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Re: Leafs @ Predators - Mar. 30th, 8:00pm - TSN4, Fan 590
« Reply #121 on: March 31, 2017, 09:04:14 AM »


Showing off the "We Rule Playoff Edition", Barney ?   ;D
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Online CarltonTheBear

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Re: Leafs @ Predators - Mar. 30th, 8:00pm - TSN4, Fan 590
« Reply #122 on: March 31, 2017, 09:16:51 AM »
He went to the front of the net, which is the right play if Martin takes Forsberg. He would have been in position to cut off the cross-crease pass to the open Pred on the other side of the net. Of course, Martin didn't take Forsberg, so, it left Zaitsev without anything to protect against.

I think it feels that way from the gif above, but I think the mistake was made before that gif started. Zaitsev should have identified Forsberg at his guy before then. The second the Preds got into the zone Zaitsev started backing off toward the net and there wasn't a threat there at that point. That's way too early to do that.

https://www.nhl.com/video/forsbergs-sweet-snipe/t-283442228/c-50968903

Offline bustaheims

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Re: Leafs @ Predators - Mar. 30th, 8:00pm - TSN4, Fan 590
« Reply #123 on: March 31, 2017, 09:37:59 AM »
I think it feels that way from the gif above, but I think the mistake was made before that gif started. Zaitsev should have identified Forsberg at his guy before then. The second the Preds got into the zone Zaitsev started backing off toward the net and there wasn't a threat there at that point. That's way too early to do that.

https://www.nhl.com/video/forsbergs-sweet-snipe/t-283442228/c-50968903

That's fair. He didn't a great job. I just think his decisions were made to look worse because of Martin's non-decision.
"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

Online WhatIfGodWasALeaf

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Re: Leafs @ Predators - Mar. 30th, 8:00pm - TSN4, Fan 590
« Reply #124 on: March 31, 2017, 09:44:51 AM »
I think it feels that way from the gif above, but I think the mistake was made before that gif started. Zaitsev should have identified Forsberg at his guy before then. The second the Preds got into the zone Zaitsev started backing off toward the net and there wasn't a threat there at that point. That's way too early to do that.

https://www.nhl.com/video/forsbergs-sweet-snipe/t-283442228/c-50968903

That's fair. He didn't a great job. I just think his decisions were made to look worse because of Martin's non-decision.

That's how I saw it too.

Online herman

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Re: Leafs @ Predators - Mar. 30th, 8:00pm - TSN4, Fan 590
« Reply #125 on: March 31, 2017, 09:50:54 AM »
He went to the front of the net, which is the right play if Martin takes Forsberg. He would have been in position to cut off the cross-crease pass to the open Pred on the other side of the net. Of course, Martin didn't take Forsberg, so, it left Zaitsev without anything to protect against.

I think it feels that way from the gif above, but I think the mistake was made before that gif started. Zaitsev should have identified Forsberg at his guy before then. The second the Preds got into the zone Zaitsev started backing off toward the net and there wasn't a threat there at that point. That's way too early to do that.

https://www.nhl.com/video/forsbergs-sweet-snipe/t-283442228/c-50968903

I'm still leaning towards it being a forward issue. It was a 4-on-3 zone entry of their first line catching our 4th line,
- Boyle being slow to get back, he tried to hit someone at the red line, and could not offer any backside pressure
- Kapanen being far away, down at the boards in the OZ, but still back before Boyle, looking to cover Bitetto
- Martin forced to pick between Forsberg (puck), Arvidsson (middle), and Bitetto (streaking down the left wing) chose no one, but backed right up against...
- Zaitsev, who floated back thinking he would take whoever Martin didn't (Arvidsson)

Online CarltonTheBear

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Re: Leafs @ Predators - Mar. 30th, 8:00pm - TSN4, Fan 590
« Reply #126 on: March 31, 2017, 10:10:38 AM »
That's fair. He didn't a great job. I just think his decisions were made to look worse because of Martin's non-decision.

But I feel like Zaitsev's poor decision is what sort of forced Martin into a non-decision. This is Forsberg skating into the circle:



The Preds have 4 players in the offensive zone now, and the Leafs have 3. Martin's essentially defending a 3-on-1 there. Yes, he was in a bit of no-mans land, but if he makes a move closer to Forsberg that's an easy drop pass to the Pred behind him and the team is still in trouble.

Also, as the Preds enter the zone it actually looks like Zaitsev is pointing toward the blue line at centre ice. That's generally how a defenceman communicates with his forward as to who to cover so he's telling Martin to watch the guys coming in. I really think Martin assumed Zaitsev was going to cover the puck carrier and was caught off guard when that didn't happen.

Offline Boston Leaf

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Re: Leafs @ Predators - Mar. 30th, 8:00pm - TSN4, Fan 590
« Reply #127 on: March 31, 2017, 10:24:02 AM »
Right now? Who cares we won ;D

Offline wnc096

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Re: Leafs @ Predators - Mar. 30th, 8:00pm - TSN4, Fan 590
« Reply #128 on: March 31, 2017, 11:03:45 AM »
Right now? Who cares we won ;D

Exactly...they gave up one goal.  So lets analyze it to death

Offline OldTimeHockey

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Re: Leafs @ Predators - Mar. 30th, 8:00pm - TSN4, Fan 590
« Reply #129 on: March 31, 2017, 11:27:22 AM »
Nope. The shooter was on Gardiner's side of the ice. I don't know why he would cover the guy on the far boards with no angle and leave the guy to walk into the slot.

Johansen was along the far boards because of Gardiner. He did the right thing, and filtered his man out of the play. If Gardiner takes Forsberg, Johansen is free to cut to the net, and there's a clear passing lane to get him the puck. Martin needed to get into Forsberg's path there - he's the one who really misread the play.

If that's how easy it is to pull a dman away from the net and into the corner, you figure we'd see this a lot more often. Gardiner is outside the Rink within the Rink. A dman needs to keep players to the outside but shouldn't do it by sacrificing the middle of the ice. He over committed to the Preds player in the corner and gave a lane to Forsberg that should never be given.

Rink inside the Rink: http://howtohockey.com/the-rink-within-the-rink-using-the-markings/


Offline Guilt Trip

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Re: Leafs @ Predators - Mar. 30th, 8:00pm - TSN4, Fan 590
« Reply #130 on: March 31, 2017, 02:45:58 PM »
Nope. The shooter was on Gardiner's side of the ice. I don't know why he would cover the guy on the far boards with no angle and leave the guy to walk into the slot.

Johansen was along the far boards because of Gardiner. He did the right thing, and filtered his man out of the play. If Gardiner takes Forsberg, Johansen is free to cut to the net, and there's a clear passing lane to get him the puck. Martin needed to get into Forsberg's path there - he's the one who really misread the play.

If that's how easy it is to pull a dman away from the net and into the corner, you figure we'd see this a lot more often. Gardiner is outside the Rink within the Rink. A dman needs to keep players to the outside but shouldn't do it by sacrificing the middle of the ice. He over committed to the Preds player in the corner and gave a lane to Forsberg that should never be given.

Rink inside the Rink: http://howtohockey.com/the-rink-within-the-rink-using-the-markings/


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Offline Zee

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Re: Leafs @ Predators - Mar. 30th, 8:00pm - TSN4, Fan 590
« Reply #131 on: March 31, 2017, 02:51:20 PM »
Nope. The shooter was on Gardiner's side of the ice. I don't know why he would cover the guy on the far boards with no angle and leave the guy to walk into the slot.

Johansen was along the far boards because of Gardiner. He did the right thing, and filtered his man out of the play. If Gardiner takes Forsberg, Johansen is free to cut to the net, and there's a clear passing lane to get him the puck. Martin needed to get into Forsberg's path there - he's the one who really misread the play.

If that's how easy it is to pull a dman away from the net and into the corner, you figure we'd see this a lot more often. Gardiner is outside the Rink within the Rink. A dman needs to keep players to the outside but shouldn't do it by sacrificing the middle of the ice. He over committed to the Preds player in the corner and gave a lane to Forsberg that should never be given.

Rink inside the Rink: http://howtohockey.com/the-rink-within-the-rink-using-the-markings/

I once saw a video called Kink inside the rink, but it wasn't hockey related at all.  :-X

Offline Nik the Trik

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Re: Leafs @ Predators - Mar. 30th, 8:00pm - TSN4, Fan 590
« Reply #132 on: March 31, 2017, 04:31:00 PM »
If that's how easy it is to pull a dman away from the net and into the corner, you figure we'd see this a lot more often. Gardiner is outside the Rink within the Rink. A dman needs to keep players to the outside but shouldn't do it by sacrificing the middle of the ice. He over committed to the Preds player in the corner and gave a lane to Forsberg that should never be given.

Whether he covered Forsberg or Johansen, someone was going to be left wide open with a clear path to the net. The idea that Johansen was harmlessly in the corner is a result of Gardiner covering him, not incidental to the fact.

The difference is that either Martin or Zaitsev could have covered Forsberg, neither could have kept with Johansen.
Give a man the reputation of an early riser and he can sleep 'til noon
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Offline OldTimeHockey

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Re: Leafs @ Predators - Mar. 30th, 8:00pm - TSN4, Fan 590
« Reply #133 on: April 01, 2017, 09:05:31 AM »
If that's how easy it is to pull a dman away from the net and into the corner, you figure we'd see this a lot more often. Gardiner is outside the Rink within the Rink. A dman needs to keep players to the outside but shouldn't do it by sacrificing the middle of the ice. He over committed to the Preds player in the corner and gave a lane to Forsberg that should never be given.

Whether he covered Forsberg or Johansen, someone was going to be left wide open with a clear path to the net. The idea that Johansen was harmlessly in the corner is a result of Gardiner covering him, not incidental to the fact.

The difference is that either Martin or Zaitsev could have covered Forsberg, neither could have kept with Johansen.

They're outmanned. You don't cover individuals, you play the zone. If Gardiner is 2 feet to his right, he takes away the lane, he remains inside the dots and Johansen is still in the corner.

You can't play a 3 on 2(or for this matter a 4 on 3) by skating one player to the corner. You're then creating a more dangerous odd man situation. I mean we can agree that a 3 on 2 is more dangerous than a 4 on 3 and a 2 on 1 is more dangerous than a 3 on 2 right?

They all made errors on the play. My only point was Gardiner overcommitted and there was no real need to.

Offline McGarnagle

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Re: Leafs @ Predators - Mar. 30th, 8:00pm - TSN4, Fan 590
« Reply #134 on: April 01, 2017, 10:52:45 AM »
If that's how easy it is to pull a dman away from the net and into the corner, you figure we'd see this a lot more often. Gardiner is outside the Rink within the Rink. A dman needs to keep players to the outside but shouldn't do it by sacrificing the middle of the ice. He over committed to the Preds player in the corner and gave a lane to Forsberg that should never be given.

Whether he covered Forsberg or Johansen, someone was going to be left wide open with a clear path to the net. The idea that Johansen was harmlessly in the corner is a result of Gardiner covering him, not incidental to the fact.

The difference is that either Martin or Zaitsev could have covered Forsberg, neither could have kept with Johansen.

They're outmanned. You don't cover individuals, you play the zone. If Gardiner is 2 feet to his right, he takes away the lane, he remains inside the dots and Johansen is still in the corner.

You can't play a 3 on 2(or for this matter a 4 on 3) by skating one player to the corner. You're then creating a more dangerous odd man situation. I mean we can agree that a 3 on 2 is more dangerous than a 4 on 3 and a 2 on 1 is more dangerous than a 3 on 2 right?

They all made errors on the play. My only point was Gardiner overcommitted and there was no real need to.

I'm thinking you've done some coaching in your past, OTH!

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Re: Leafs @ Predators - Mar. 30th, 8:00pm - TSN4, Fan 590
« Reply #134 on: April 01, 2017, 10:52:45 AM »