Author Topic: #TheLeafsAreActuallyGood...?  (Read 5723 times)

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Online Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate

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Re: #TheLeafsAreActuallyGood...?
« Reply #60 on: June 05, 2017, 01:58:28 PM »
Great comparison here from when the Hawks, Pens and Kings went from rags to riches.

I drank the Burkean koolaid once.  But I'm no longer thirsty.

Offline Zee

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Re: #TheLeafsAreActuallyGood...?
« Reply #61 on: June 05, 2017, 02:50:03 PM »
Great comparison here from when the Hawks, Pens and Kings went from rags to riches.

I drank the Burkean koolaid once.  But I'm no longer thirsty.

I sure hope he's right.

Offline Frank E

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Re: #TheLeafsAreActuallyGood...?
« Reply #62 on: June 05, 2017, 05:03:28 PM »
A year ago, we were advocating having a bunch of cap space to take on overpaid garbage to get the accompanying picks...why isn't that the plan anymore?

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Re: #TheLeafsAreActuallyGood...?
« Reply #63 on: June 05, 2017, 05:36:43 PM »
A year ago, we were advocating having a bunch of cap space to take on overpaid garbage to get the accompanying picks...why isn't that the plan anymore?

I'd say it's a combination of the performance of the team, not having that cap space - partly due to the cap not growing and partly to the team not having moved many contracts - and, not wanting to saddle the team with a significant bonus overage penalty moving forward.
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Online herman

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Re: #TheLeafsAreActuallyGood...?
« Reply #64 on: June 05, 2017, 05:45:34 PM »
Three rookies hitting Jack Eichel+ numbers all at once, first tier vets having career years is a lot to process.

Offline Frank E

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Re: #TheLeafsAreActuallyGood...?
« Reply #65 on: June 05, 2017, 05:52:39 PM »
A year ago, we were advocating having a bunch of cap space to take on overpaid garbage to get the accompanying picks...why isn't that the plan anymore?

I'd say it's a combination of the performance of the team, not having that cap space - partly due to the cap not growing and partly to the team not having moved many contracts - and, not wanting to saddle the team with a significant bonus overage penalty moving forward.

OK, but they've got the room this year for the bonus cushion, and then some, even given a flat cap. 

Would we (tmlfans "we") be adverse to some heavy short term acquisitions (assuming nothing or hardly nothing going the other way, plus UFA signings) to try and make some noise over the next couple of years...or should be play the patience card and take on some more "garbage" contracts just keep drafting and developing higher end talent with no appreciable change in overall team performance over the next couple of seasons? 

I say this because they should want to make some use of that cap space, given they should have the budget for it.

Online bustaheims

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Re: #TheLeafsAreActuallyGood...?
« Reply #66 on: June 05, 2017, 07:55:28 PM »
OK, but they've got the room this year for the bonus cushion, and then some, even given a flat cap. 

Actually, they don't if they start adding contracts without moving any. As things stand right now, they have ~$12M in cap space before they come up against the projected ceiling - and that's before last season's bonus overage is counted, and it's coming in somewhere in the neighbourhood of $5M. Marchenko potential heading back to KHL as rumoured frees up $1.45M (though, with the league minimum now at $650K, that's basically negated by the Leafs needing to add a 6th defenceman and a backup goalie), and they might free up some in the expansion draft, but, unless they make a deal with Vegas beforehand, that's not guaranteed (for instance, if Vegas takes whichever of Rychel and Leipsic the Leafs need toe expose, there's no cap savings).

That leaves the team with ~$7M in space before the hit the cap ceiling. They potentially have another $5M in bonuses that could be reached this season with the rookies currently on the roster. They really only have at most $2M-$2.5M to play with if they want to eliminate any possibility of a bonus overage.
"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

Online CarltonTheBear

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Re: #TheLeafsAreActuallyGood...?
« Reply #67 on: June 05, 2017, 09:45:02 PM »
Let's not forget that the Leafs were a NTC-away from acquiring Filppula and his $5mil cap hit for another season from Tampa when they made the Boyle trade. That would have likely came with a pick or two coming our way as well. So that idea hasn't entirely been scrapped by the Leafs management. Something like that could still happen.

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Re: #TheLeafsAreActuallyGood...?
« Reply #68 on: June 05, 2017, 09:57:50 PM »
Let's not forget that the Leafs were a NTC-away from acquiring Filppula and his $5mil cap hit for another season from Tampa when they made the Boyle trade. That would have likely came with a pick or two coming our way as well. So that idea hasn't entirely been scrapped by the Leafs management. Something like that could still happen.

For players the team thinks will be useful, yeah. They'll likely be willing to go into overage if they feel the move improves the team and brings some quality futures. I don't see them just taking on a garbage contract for picks, though. If they're going to risk another overage penalty, they're going to need the contract they pick up to belong to a player who will contribute on the ice.
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Online CarltonTheBear

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Re: #TheLeafsAreActuallyGood...?
« Reply #69 on: June 05, 2017, 10:17:27 PM »
For players the team thinks will be useful, yeah. They'll likely be willing to go into overage if they feel the move improves the team and brings some quality futures. I don't see them just taking on a garbage contract for picks, though. If they're going to risk another overage penalty, they're going to need the contract they pick up to belong to a player who will contribute on the ice.

Think back to our team at the deadline, does that apply to Filppula? I don't think he's a bad player at all, but seriously think back to our line-up. He's a lefty who usually plays centre. He absolutely wasn't playing centre on our team. Especially not since Boyle would have been the initial piece of that trade, so 1 through 4 we were set. Does he play left wing anywhere? I doubt Babcock would have disturbed any of those guys after keeping them set in stone all season long, and that includes Martin on the 4th line. He wasn't going to get playing time on his off-wing over Nylander, Marner, or Brown. So at best, he's our 4RW or a healthy scratch. I wouldn't be surprised if looking over the roster or maybe even talking to Babcock about his potential role caused him to veto the trade.

Anyway, I don't know what this all exactly means. Even at the time the news about him was a little odd. Looking back I'm glad the trade didn't go. Especially since the kickers Tampa sent with him to Philly weren't anything I'm upset we missed out on. To be honest I'd rather we would have gone after a worse player to get a better draft pick out of it.

Online bustaheims

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Re: #TheLeafsAreActuallyGood...?
« Reply #70 on: June 06, 2017, 02:08:40 PM »
Think back to our team at the deadline, does that apply to Filppula? I don't think he's a bad player at all, but seriously think back to our line-up. He's a lefty who usually plays centre. He absolutely wasn't playing centre on our team. Especially not since Boyle would have been the initial piece of that trade, so 1 through 4 we were set. Does he play left wing anywhere? I doubt Babcock would have disturbed any of those guys after keeping them set in stone all season long, and that includes Martin on the 4th line. He wasn't going to get playing time on his off-wing over Nylander, Marner, or Brown. So at best, he's our 4RW or a healthy scratch. I wouldn't be surprised if looking over the roster or maybe even talking to Babcock about his potential role caused him to veto the trade.

Anyway, I don't know what this all exactly means. Even at the time the news about him was a little odd. Looking back I'm glad the trade didn't go. Especially since the kickers Tampa sent with him to Philly weren't anything I'm upset we missed out on. To be honest I'd rather we would have gone after a worse player to get a better draft pick out of it.

I think that's hard to say without knowing all the details of the trade. There was some speculation Bozak was going to be part of that trade - which would have improved the return for the Leafs, and provided Filppula with a spot in the lineup (as dumb a move as that would have been).
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Offline Frank E

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Re: #TheLeafsAreActuallyGood...?
« Reply #71 on: June 08, 2017, 03:36:53 PM »
OK, but they've got the room this year for the bonus cushion, and then some, even given a flat cap. 

Actually, they don't if they start adding contracts without moving any. As things stand right now, they have ~$12M in cap space before they come up against the projected ceiling - and that's before last season's bonus overage is counted, and it's coming in somewhere in the neighbourhood of $5M. Marchenko potential heading back to KHL as rumoured frees up $1.45M (though, with the league minimum now at $650K, that's basically negated by the Leafs needing to add a 6th defenceman and a backup goalie), and they might free up some in the expansion draft, but, unless they make a deal with Vegas beforehand, that's not guaranteed (for instance, if Vegas takes whichever of Rychel and Leipsic the Leafs need toe expose, there's no cap savings).

That leaves the team with ~$7M in space before the hit the cap ceiling. They potentially have another $5M in bonuses that could be reached this season with the rookies currently on the roster. They really only have at most $2M-$2.5M to play with if they want to eliminate any possibility of a bonus overage.

But they've got $10mil in LTIR space too, right?

Online bustaheims

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Re: #TheLeafsAreActuallyGood...?
« Reply #72 on: June 08, 2017, 04:02:31 PM »
But they've got $10mil in LTIR space too, right?

Sure, but you can't use LTIR space for bonuses. If the Leafs are in the position where they have to use LTIR space - which they can only do if their roster, including the injured players, hits the cap ceiling during the season (before bonuses are awarded). If the Leafs use even one penny of LTIR space, all bonuses get pushed to the next season.
"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

Offline Frank E

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Re: #TheLeafsAreActuallyGood...?
« Reply #73 on: June 08, 2017, 04:16:24 PM »
But they've got $10mil in LTIR space too, right?

Sure, but you can't use LTIR space for bonuses. If the Leafs are in the position where they have to use LTIR space - which they can only do if their roster, including the injured players, hits the cap ceiling during the season (before bonuses are awarded). If the Leafs use even one penny of LTIR space, all bonuses get pushed to the next season.

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Online bustaheims

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Re: #TheLeafsAreActuallyGood...?
« Reply #74 on: June 08, 2017, 04:37:19 PM »
But they've got $10mil in LTIR space too, right?

Sure, but you can't use LTIR space for bonuses. If the Leafs are in the position where they have to use LTIR space - which they can only do if their roster, including the injured players, hits the cap ceiling during the season (before bonuses are awarded). If the Leafs use even one penny of LTIR space, all bonuses get pushed to the next season.

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You just don't like truth.
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Re: #TheLeafsAreActuallyGood...?
« Reply #74 on: June 08, 2017, 04:37:19 PM »