Author Topic: 2016-17 Centennial Leafs General Team Discussion  (Read 29597 times)

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Offline TBLeafer

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Re: 2016-17 Centennial Leafs General Team Discussion
« Reply #30 on: November 07, 2016, 10:18:30 AM »
Nik, here an easy yes or no question for you.

Do you distrust that the Leafs finishing this season as a bubble/playoff team will help their rebuild process?

Offline Nik the Trik

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Re: 2016-17 Centennial Leafs General Team Discussion
« Reply #31 on: November 07, 2016, 10:34:30 AM »

It's not actually an easy yes or no question. "Distrust" would indicate I think the subsequent statement is, itself, being dishonest. But statements can't be honest or dishonest, just true or false.

My guess is you meant to ask whether or not I agree with the statement and you know the answer to that being as I said as much on the last page.
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Offline Bullfrog

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Re: 2016-17 Centennial Leafs General Team Discussion
« Reply #32 on: November 07, 2016, 10:38:51 AM »
I will add my 2 cents.

I would love another top 5 pick this season, preferable a D. HOWEVER I will not cheer for a loss (like last season), this team is so much more enjoyable to watch that IF they somehow manage to squeeze in the Playoffs I would love it even more.

So, I'm on the fence here. Either outcome will be good.

I'm somewhat in the same place. I'd like for them to finish in the bottom five in order to get another high pick, but I'm not actively cheering for it. If they pull off a miracle and make the playoffs, I'll just simply enjoy the ride. I'm just enjoying watching the team play and am more-or-less ambivalent to their position in the standings.

Offline TBLeafer

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Re: 2016-17 Centennial Leafs General Team Discussion
« Reply #33 on: November 07, 2016, 10:43:16 AM »

It's not actually an easy yes or no question. "Distrust" would indicate I think the subsequent statement is, itself, being dishonest. But statements can't be honest or dishonest, just true or false.

My guess is you meant to ask whether or not I agree with the statement and you know the answer to that being as I said as much on the last page.

Nice duck.  So in essence you're saying disagreeing and distrusting are not one and the same for the most part?

Usually people don't trust decisions they disagree with until they are proven wrong.  Once they are proven wrong and admit it, the distrust goes away.

They also start to agree more with that person usually, because they have started to earn their trust.  ;)

Offline Nik the Trik

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Re: 2016-17 Centennial Leafs General Team Discussion
« Reply #34 on: November 07, 2016, 10:47:43 AM »
To be clear, I don't think the topic here is so much how we're cheering for the Leafs season to end as it is:

A) Can we separate what we want to see happen from what we think will happen(I say we can!).

B) If the answer to A) is no, how much should you whine about other people thinking differently than you do on the subject(I say not much!).

C) If the answer to A) is yes, is "What we think" a good topic for discussion even if it leads us into arriving at the likelihood the Leafs are playing above their heads(I say sure!)

Personally, I want the Leafs to win the Stanley Cup this year. If not this year than soon! I'm cheering for what I think is series of outcomes I think will make that most likely to happen!
Give a man the reputation of an early riser and he can sleep 'til noon
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Offline Nik the Trik

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Re: 2016-17 Centennial Leafs General Team Discussion
« Reply #35 on: November 07, 2016, 10:49:59 AM »
Nice duck.  So in essence you're saying disagreeing and distrusting are not one and the same for the most part?

Yes. Saying someone is wrong is not the same as saying they're lying. That really is just the basics of the language.

And like I said, I answered the question you were trying to ask last page.
Give a man the reputation of an early riser and he can sleep 'til noon
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Offline Bill_Berg

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Re: 2016-17 Centennial Leafs General Team Discussion
« Reply #36 on: November 07, 2016, 10:50:55 AM »
I will add my 2 cents.

I would love another top 5 pick this season, preferable a D. HOWEVER I will not cheer for a loss (like last season), this team is so much more enjoyable to watch that IF they somehow manage to squeeze in the Playoffs I would love it even more.

So, I'm on the fence here. Either outcome will be good.

I'm somewhat in the same place. I'd like for them to finish in the bottom five in order to get another high pick, but I'm not actively cheering for it. If they pull off a miracle and make the playoffs, I'll just simply enjoy the ride. I'm just enjoying watching the team play and am more-or-less ambivalent to their position in the standings.

It's a nice place to be this season. Lots of potential outcomes that can be considered good for the team and/or fun for the fans. Last year was great, but could have been horrible, this year there aren't many outcomes that I would consider horrible. Some are not ideal, but even those are not going to cause me any grief.

Offline TBLeafer

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Re: 2016-17 Centennial Leafs General Team Discussion
« Reply #37 on: November 07, 2016, 11:10:06 AM »
Nice duck.  So in essence you're saying disagreeing and distrusting are not one and the same for the most part?

Yes. Saying someone is wrong is not the same as saying they're lying. That really is just the basics of the language.

And like I said, I answered the question you were trying to ask last page.

Someone doesn't have to be lying for you to distrust them.

We will leave this circular discussion now, at that. No need for another battle in semantics.

I personally think its better to start looking at improving the current team, over the future team.

And you don't need to empty the cupboard to do it.

Rielly-Zaitsev look like a highly capable top pairing.

I don't think it would be that hard to upgrade Marincin or Polak without having to rely on drafting Lil.

The Marlies are the youngest team in the AHL and they are dominating, even after having moved up big guns in Nylander, Brown, Hyman and Carrick to the NHL full time roster.

Andersen is coming along nicely now as Leafs starter.  Early jitters seem to have been worked out. Look at Bibeau and Woll's numbers, too.

The Leafs have stopped blowing leads and are playing over .500 hockey now.

Look at what our top prospects not in the AHL are doing.

We already have internal solutions to the roster, you don't seem to be putting stock in and we STILL have one of the highest ranked prospect pools even after promoting Matthews, Marner, Brown, etc.

We are set up for the future well already, without the need to add a Lilgegren or Patrick.  There is no need at all for them.  There is a need to upgrade our NHL team perhaps, with a more capable NHL 3-4 D and that is all right now.

Offline Nik the Trik

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Re: 2016-17 Centennial Leafs General Team Discussion
« Reply #38 on: November 07, 2016, 11:19:31 AM »
I personally think its better to start looking at improving the current team, over the future team.

Great, good for you. Truth is, I don't really care what you think or how you see the team going forward. In your time here you haven't really convinced me that you are particularly open to ideas that would challenge the conclusions you've arrived at, nor have you done much to convince me the conclusions you arrive at are done so dispassionately and based on evidence.

Again, this discussion is not about the different ways we see the team and what's best for them going forward. It's about your seeming frustration with the fact that there are people, like me, who disagree with you and who are going to use this board to talk about their points of view even if it "injects negativity" or prevents fans from "banding together" or whatever nonsense magical thinking you're promoting re: an actual impact of fandom on the fortunes of the team.
Give a man the reputation of an early riser and he can sleep 'til noon
-Mark Twain

Offline Highlander

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Re: 2016-17 Centennial Leafs General Team Discussion
« Reply #39 on: November 07, 2016, 11:46:22 AM »
Magical thinking has always worked for me.
"We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our children"
                                           Navaho Proverb

Offline Bullfrog

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Re: 2016-17 Centennial Leafs General Team Discussion
« Reply #40 on: November 07, 2016, 11:47:18 AM »
Someone doesn't have to be lying for you to distrust them.

We will leave this circular discussion now, at that. No need for another battle in semantics.

....
We are set up for the future well already, without the need to add a Lilgegren or Patrick.  There is no need at all for them.  There is a need to upgrade our NHL team perhaps, with a more capable NHL 3-4 D and that is all right now.

I agree that semantic battle are annoying, but I think it's important to use the correct words. Distrust ≠ disagree; that's not "just semantics", that's fundamental.


Back to hockey though: I think we need more than a capable 3/4 guy. This team needs someone who'll bump Rielly down to the no.2 spot. Admittedly, Rielly is still very young and has lots of room to grow, but it's been forever since Toronto had a Norris candidate.

Offline Highlander

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Re: 2016-17 Centennial Leafs General Team Discussion
« Reply #41 on: November 07, 2016, 11:50:18 AM »
His name is Nielson and he will be along in a while
"We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our children"
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Offline Bullfrog

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Re: 2016-17 Centennial Leafs General Team Discussion
« Reply #42 on: November 07, 2016, 11:55:19 AM »
I haven't seen any Marlies games this year; is he really looking to be that good?

Offline Highlander

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Re: 2016-17 Centennial Leafs General Team Discussion
« Reply #43 on: November 07, 2016, 11:58:08 AM »
Looks damn good to me and I have watched almost all available games to date.  His slapshot from the point is very accurate and he hits people. He has the size and the skating ability. Kind of says "no fear" to me.
Another great Hunter pick.
Dermott looking better than expected as well.
"We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our children"
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Offline CarltonTheBear

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Re: 2016-17 Centennial Leafs General Team Discussion
« Reply #44 on: November 07, 2016, 12:00:38 PM »
I mean, as good as he may or may not have looked in 10 games this season, future "Norris candidate" seems like a pretty colossal leap.

I hope that's not too negative for anyone.

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Re: 2016-17 Centennial Leafs General Team Discussion
« Reply #44 on: November 07, 2016, 12:00:38 PM »