Author Topic: Oilers @ Leafs - Nov. 1st, 7:30pm - TSN4, Fan 590  (Read 4670 times)

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Offline WhatIfGodWasALeaf

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Re: Oilers @ Leafs - Nov. 1st, 7:30pm - TSN4, Fan 590
« Reply #30 on: November 01, 2016, 02:28:38 PM »
conditioning sting.

Well, that's one way to get him back on the IR. :)

The way Lou is making this stuff up, it'll be Bill Daly running the sting. ;)

Offline Bill_Berg

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Re: Oilers @ Leafs - Nov. 1st, 7:30pm - TSN4, Fan 590
« Reply #31 on: November 01, 2016, 03:04:36 PM »
UGH.  The Martin and Smith out of the lineup is getting beat to death on this board.  Don't forget gentlemen, the entire game isn't played 5 on 5. 

I see where you're coming from. I don't think they're getting beat up on this board per se. Pretty much only by me  8).

With regards to your post about the PK, I totally agree. Nullifying shot attempts is of high value. Looking at our prospect pipeline and the glut of players we have pushing into contention, I've been mulling another idea.

You bring up a topic that is of interest to me and on my mind lately: team composition. Traditionally, we have GMs like Burke favouring a top-6, bottom-6 construction of skill/grind. Slightly less traditional, you have builds that Babcock favours in grind + skill on the top 9 and then filler on the bottom.

What if we had a team full of players who can flexibly play both styles? Matthews is our top end skill guy, but I'd argue he's a better puck retriever than Hyman. Just as fast, better hands, better vision. Nylander too, but he just does it with cerebral slickness rather than pure gumption or strength.

What if we could roll 4 lines (instead of 2-3?) of puck holders with speed and mix in some top dollar finish? What if these normally top-6 type players are rotated through more bottom-6ish roles to the point that they get good at it? Not PK specialists or 4th line grinders, but all at least capable of adequate to great defensive positioning? The game might not be played entirely 5v5, but 93+% of it is. Are you willing to make over 17% of your roster dedicated to the PK?

Our current lineup is littered with similar players (of differing caliber): Brown, Kadri, Marner, Holland, Griffith, Soshnikov. Players coming up of the same ilk: Leipsic, Kapanen, Lindberg, Timashov, Johnsson. Beyond them, there's Bracco, Dzierkals, Korostelev, Grundstrom, Korshkov, Brooks. Time it right and they all fit under the Salary Cap just fine.

Match all that with mobile defensemen who are backed up by solid forward coverage and you basically have a true 5-man attack and 5-man defense anywhere on the ice.

We're not there yet, but I can see the pieces, and I can see the tactics being taught and employed.

That's why I don't care for Martin, or slow skating heavy hitter d-men, or other one-dimensional specialists that don't ultimately contribute to scoring.

93% may be 5 v 5, but that other 7% is worth more than 7% of 5 v 5 time. You can rock everyone at 5 v 5, but if all the other team needs is a couple power plays to get a couple goals, rolling 4 lines 5 v 5 isn't going to make up for that.


Offline Bullfrog

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Re: Oilers @ Leafs - Nov. 1st, 7:30pm - TSN4, Fan 590
« Reply #32 on: November 01, 2016, 03:09:59 PM »
#freeHolland

Offline herman

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Re: Oilers @ Leafs - Nov. 1st, 7:30pm - TSN4, Fan 590
« Reply #33 on: November 01, 2016, 04:17:03 PM »
93% may be 5 v 5, but that other 7% is worth more than 7% of 5 v 5 time. You can rock everyone at 5 v 5, but if all the other team needs is a couple power plays to get a couple goals, rolling 4 lines 5 v 5 isn't going to make up for that.

I see your point. I'd like to also point out that rocking other teams on 5v5 generally leads to PP time for the rockers. So is having a PK specialist (with no offensive capability) still worth it in the long run?

I'm not against having good PK players, mind you.

Offline Significantly Insignificant

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Re: Oilers @ Leafs - Nov. 1st, 7:30pm - TSN4, Fan 590
« Reply #34 on: November 01, 2016, 04:46:24 PM »
93% may be 5 v 5, but that other 7% is worth more than 7% of 5 v 5 time. You can rock everyone at 5 v 5, but if all the other team needs is a couple power plays to get a couple goals, rolling 4 lines 5 v 5 isn't going to make up for that.

I see your point. I'd like to also point out that rocking other teams on 5v5 generally leads to PP time for the rockers. So is having a PK specialist (with no offensive capability) still worth it in the long run?

I'm not against having good PK players, mind you.

Hogwash

Your pro-PP, anti-PK agenda has gone on long enough Herman.  Time for you to acknowledge all facets of the game.
"Progress lies not in enhancing what is, but in advancing toward what will be. - Khalil Gibran

Offline disco

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Re: Oilers @ Leafs - Nov. 1st, 7:30pm - TSN4, Fan 590
« Reply #35 on: November 01, 2016, 04:52:21 PM »
Wayne Gretzky, Bobby Orr, Paul Coffey... if there are two other forward greats in the building tonight you've got one hell of an all-time line!
« Last Edit: November 01, 2016, 05:00:02 PM by disco »
"I'm here for (6) more years. Then I'm gonna stay for two more because we'll be really good." - Coach Mike Babcock

Offline Nik the Trik

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Re: Oilers @ Leafs - Nov. 1st, 7:30pm - TSN4, Fan 590
« Reply #36 on: November 01, 2016, 04:58:28 PM »
I would like to take this time to remind everyone that the Oilers should be everyone's least favourite team and we should be rooting for them to fail horribly.

From the near-extortion of city council for a ridiculously expensive publicly funded arena to building their team through failure they are the epitome of everything wrong in modern sports.

If they do end up winning tonight or having success this year or future years, ask yourself, what does that mean? What bragging rights would an Oilers fan legitimately have because of that success? We all know pro sports is inherently an illogical thing but shouldn't it mean something, anything, more than failing your way upwards?

Their owner's a dink, the local media carries their water and they're just a product of rewarded incompetence. If this were an 80's action movie they wouldn't be the villain, they'd be the villain's weasel sidekick.

Their arena should burn down and Connor McDavid should retire to take up the flute.
Give a man the reputation of an early riser and he can sleep 'til noon
-Mark Twain

Offline mr grieves

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Re: Oilers @ Leafs - Nov. 1st, 7:30pm - TSN4, Fan 590
« Reply #37 on: November 01, 2016, 05:10:47 PM »
93% may be 5 v 5, but that other 7% is worth more than 7% of 5 v 5 time. You can rock everyone at 5 v 5, but if all the other team needs is a couple power plays to get a couple goals, rolling 4 lines 5 v 5 isn't going to make up for that.

I see your point. I'd like to also point out that rocking other teams on 5v5 generally leads to PP time for the rockers. So is having a PK specialist (with no offensive capability) still worth it in the long run?

I'm not against having good PK players, mind you.

I don't remember exactly, but didn't the Leafs used to have Sundin and Mogilny on the PK? Was the PK that worse off for it?

Offline disco

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Re: Oilers @ Leafs - Nov. 1st, 7:30pm - TSN4, Fan 590
« Reply #38 on: November 01, 2016, 05:15:43 PM »
"I'm here for (6) more years. Then I'm gonna stay for two more because we'll be really good." - Coach Mike Babcock

Offline Nik the Trik

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Re: Oilers @ Leafs - Nov. 1st, 7:30pm - TSN4, Fan 590
« Reply #39 on: November 01, 2016, 05:18:45 PM »
I don't remember exactly, but didn't the Leafs used to have Sundin and Mogilny on the PK? Was the PK that worse off for it?

Putting offensive players on the PK did used to be a real thing, if SH goal numbers are any indication. Pavel Bure, for instance, led league in SH goals twice and he was, to put it mildly, not a great defender.
Give a man the reputation of an early riser and he can sleep 'til noon
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Offline Highlander

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Re: Oilers @ Leafs - Nov. 1st, 7:30pm - TSN4, Fan 590
« Reply #40 on: November 01, 2016, 05:29:25 PM »
it a conditioning stint? ??? 
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Offline herman

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Re: Oilers @ Leafs - Nov. 1st, 7:30pm - TSN4, Fan 590
« Reply #41 on: November 01, 2016, 05:34:59 PM »
Washington throws out Ovechkin on the PK too. You're basically forced to never use his side of the ice if you know what's good for you.

Offline herman

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Re: Oilers @ Leafs - Nov. 1st, 7:30pm - TSN4, Fan 590
« Reply #42 on: November 01, 2016, 05:47:23 PM »
I don't remember exactly, but didn't the Leafs used to have Sundin and Mogilny on the PK? Was the PK that worse off for it?

I found a reference to this: http://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockey/mogilny-scores-two-in-win-over-sabres-1.286595
Quote
Quinn even used him to kill a penalty.

"Pat told me, `You go.' I thought, `Me, are you kidding me?' "

The previous night in Detroit, the Red Wings used goal hog Brett Hull during a penalty kill against the Leafs.

"If Brett can do it, I can do it," Mogilny said, his subtle chuckle kicking in again.

Online Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate

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Re: Oilers @ Leafs - Nov. 1st, 7:30pm - TSN4, Fan 590
« Reply #43 on: November 01, 2016, 06:26:50 PM »
I would like to take this time to remind everyone that the Oilers should be everyone's least favourite team and we should be rooting for them to fail horribly.

From the near-extortion of city council for a ridiculously expensive publicly funded arena to building their team through failure they are the epitome of everything wrong in modern sports.

If they do end up winning tonight or having success this year or future years, ask yourself, what does that mean? What bragging rights would an Oilers fan legitimately have because of that success? We all know pro sports is inherently an illogical thing but shouldn't it mean something, anything, more than failing your way upwards?

Their owner's a dink, the local media carries their water and they're just a product of rewarded incompetence. If this were an 80's action movie they wouldn't be the villain, they'd be the villain's weasel sidekick.

Their arena should burn down and Connor McDavid should retire to take up the flute.

Bassoon. Otherwise spot on, and timely.

Offline WhatIfGodWasALeaf

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Re: Oilers @ Leafs - Nov. 1st, 7:30pm - TSN4, Fan 590
« Reply #44 on: November 01, 2016, 06:53:15 PM »
I would like to take this time to remind everyone that the Oilers should be everyone's least favourite team and we should be rooting for them to fail horribly.

From the near-extortion of city council for a ridiculously expensive publicly funded arena to building their team through failure they are the epitome of everything wrong in modern sports.

If they do end up winning tonight or having success this year or future years, ask yourself, what does that mean? What bragging rights would an Oilers fan legitimately have because of that success? We all know pro sports is inherently an illogical thing but shouldn't it mean something, anything, more than failing your way upwards?

Their owner's a dink, the local media carries their water and they're just a product of rewarded incompetence. If this were an 80's action movie they wouldn't be the villain, they'd be the villain's weasel sidekick.

Their arena should burn down and Connor McDavid should retire to take up the flute.

Magnificent.

TMLfans.ca

Re: Oilers @ Leafs - Nov. 1st, 7:30pm - TSN4, Fan 590
« Reply #44 on: November 01, 2016, 06:53:15 PM »