Author Topic: 2016-2017 NHL Thread  (Read 43271 times)

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Offline bustaheims

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Re: 2016-2017 NHL Thread
« Reply #810 on: August 31, 2017, 12:24:32 PM »
I would have assumed so too but there you are. That said, are Tkachuk and Roenick good candidates? I guess so. But they're both marginal. Which I think still ultimately makes the point.

If it wasn't for the fact they both scored 500+ goals and 1000+ points, I'm not sure they'd really even be marginal candidates. No major trophies between them (Tkachuk led the league in goals for a single season before there was a trophy for it), a pair of 2nd team end of season All Stars (both Tkachuk), no real international success, nor were they major parts of teams that were dominant forces in the league over multiple seasons. I'm not sure I'd vote for them.
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Offline Bates

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Re: 2016-2017 NHL Thread
« Reply #811 on: August 31, 2017, 12:44:26 PM »
I wouldn't vote either in but am fairly confident they will get there. 

Offline Nik the Trik

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Re: 2016-2017 NHL Thread
« Reply #812 on: August 31, 2017, 12:52:29 PM »
If it wasn't for the fact they both scored 500+ goals and 1000+ points, I'm not sure they'd really even be marginal candidates. No major trophies between them (Tkachuk led the league in goals for a single season before there was a trophy for it), a pair of 2nd team end of season All Stars (both Tkachuk), no real international success, nor were they major parts of teams that were dominant forces in the league over multiple seasons. I'm not sure I'd vote for them.

If you look past stuff that's beyond their control though like playing your best years at C when Yzerman, Gretzky and Lemieux were all in the league or where they were born and how that influences international success I think they pretty comfortably compare to some of the more marginal guys that the Hall has put in in recent years. I get that a lowest common denominator argument like that isn't a good standard for the Hall but Roenick is pretty comparable to someone like Nieuwendyk and I think Tkachuk was a better player than, say, Andreychuk.

And, at least in Tkachuk's case, I think the World Cup in '96 and a silver medal in '02 is a pretty solid international resume.
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Offline bustaheims

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Re: 2016-2017 NHL Thread
« Reply #813 on: August 31, 2017, 01:16:10 PM »
If you look past stuff that's beyond their control though like playing your best years at C when Yzerman, Gretzky and Lemieux were all in the league or where they were born and how that influences international success I think they pretty comfortably compare to some of the more marginal guys that the Hall has put in in recent years. I get that a lowest common denominator argument like that isn't a good standard for the Hall but Roenick is pretty comparable to someone like Nieuwendyk and I think Tkachuk was a better player than, say, Andreychuk.

And, at least in Tkachuk's case, I think the World Cup in '96 and a silver medal in '02 is a pretty solid international resume.

Maybe - and I think I'd mostly agree with Tkachuk/Andreychuk, though, the latter's totals were obviously more impressive, thanks to his health/longevity - but, Nieuwendyk has a Calder, Conn Smythe, Olympic Gold, and three Cup rings in his favour. That's a fair amount of hardware that Roenick doesn't - and all accomplishments he had similar opportunities to achieve. If Nieuwendyk is near the baseline minimum, Roenick doesn't deserve entry.
"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

Offline Nik the Trik

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Re: 2016-2017 NHL Thread
« Reply #814 on: August 31, 2017, 01:33:56 PM »
Maybe - and I think I'd mostly agree with Tkachuk/Andreychuk, though, the latter's totals were obviously more impressive, thanks to his health/longevity - but, Nieuwendyk has a Calder, Conn Smythe, Olympic Gold, and three Cup rings in his favour. That's a fair amount of hardware that Roenick doesn't - and all accomplishments he had similar opportunities to achieve. If Nieuwendyk is near the baseline minimum, Roenick doesn't deserve entry.

Eh, I just don't agree. Nieuwendyk winning a bunch of cups as his team's #2 C, being an end of roster guy on the '02 Olympic team and a pretty dubious Conn Smythe decision don't outweigh what I think is the larger question of which guy was a better player. To me, that's Roenick. Scored 100 points three times to Nieuwendyk never hitting the mark. An all-star 9 times to Nieuwendyk's 4. All throughout the 90's I don't think any of Roenick's teams would have for a second considered trading him straight for Nieuwendyk.

As a 22 year old Nieuwendyk scored 14 points in 22 playoff games. Calgary, a team with 5 other guys who'd eventually be in the HOF, won the cup. Nieuwendyk was 4th on the team in scoring.

As a 22 year old, Roenick scored 22 points in 18 playoff games. Chicago, a team with 3 other guys who'd eventually make the Hall, didn't win the cup. Roenick led that team in scoring by almost 30 points.

To me, at some point, you can't put a guy in the Hall because he had better teammates than another guy.
Give a man the reputation of an early riser and he can sleep 'til noon
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Offline Significantly Insignificant

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Re: 2016-2017 NHL Thread
« Reply #815 on: October 21, 2017, 08:27:07 PM »
The rumours of Stamkos's demise were greatly exaggerated.
"Progress lies not in enhancing what is, but in advancing toward what will be. - Khalil Gibran

Offline Significantly Insignificant

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Re: 2016-2017 NHL Thread
« Reply #816 on: October 23, 2017, 02:16:06 PM »
Nope, I'm going to keep posting in this thread.  There will only ever be a 2016-2017 NHL Thread in my heart.  Because that was the year the Auston Matthews started playing.  So you all can move on and post in the "correctly labelled" thread.  But I'll still be here.  All by myself.   Living under a rock.
"Progress lies not in enhancing what is, but in advancing toward what will be. - Khalil Gibran

Offline Britishbulldog

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Re: 2016-2017 NHL Thread
« Reply #817 on: October 23, 2017, 03:37:49 PM »
Richard Dunn all by himself in Las Vegas Airport

You remind me of a Moncton acquaintance of mine who got stuck in an airport and recorded a video.

All The Best
Dan

Offline Significantly Insignificant

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Re: 2016-2017 NHL Thread
« Reply #818 on: October 23, 2017, 04:01:59 PM »
Richard Dunn all by himself in Las Vegas Airport

You remind me of a Moncton acquaintance of mine who got stuck in an airport and recorded a video.

That is good.  Hard to fill that whole song up with a video of me typing though.
"Progress lies not in enhancing what is, but in advancing toward what will be. - Khalil Gibran

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Re: 2016-2017 NHL Thread
« Reply #818 on: October 23, 2017, 04:01:59 PM »