Author Topic: Ranking Prospects Post-Matthews  (Read 33320 times)

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Offline herman

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Ranking Prospects Post-Matthews
« on: July 11, 2016, 09:50:59 AM »
PPP's Top 25 Under 25 for 2016-2017 is under way.
http://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/toronto-maple-leafs-top-25-prospects-under-25/2016/7/10/12136480/the-t25u25-is-in-production

How would you rank them? Do you rank by ceiling/potential? or current NHL usefulness? How would you rank our big 4? Who rounds out the top 5? Has the pool ever been this tightly contested in each of the talent tiers?


2016 Eligible:2016's list2015's list
Adam Brooks
Andreas Johnson
Andrew Nielsen
Antoine Bibeau
Auston Matthews
Brendan Leipsic
Carl Grundstrom
Connor Brown
Connor Carrick
Dakota Joshua
Dmytro Timashov
Dominic Toninato
Frank Corrado
Frederik Gauthier
Garret Sparks
Jack Walker
JD Greenway
Jeremy Bracco
Jesper Lindgren
JJ Piccinich
Joseph Woll
Josh Leivo
Justin Holl
Kasmir Kaskisuo
Kasperi Kapanen
Keaton Middleton
Kerby Rychel
Martin Marincin
Martins Dzierkals
Mitch Marner
Morgan Rielly
Nicolas Mattinen
Nikita Korostelev
Nikita Soshnikov
Nikita Zaitsev
Nikolai Chebykin
Nolan Vesey
Pierre Engvall
Rinat Valiev
Stephen Desrocher
Tobias Lindberg
Travis Dermott
Viktor Loov
Vladimir Boblyev
William Nylander
Yegor Korshkov
Zach Hyman
25. Yegor Korshkov
24. Martins Dzierkals
23. Carl Grundstrom
22. Andrew Neilsen
21. Rinat Valiev
20. Tobias Lindberg
19. Travis Dermott
18. Josh Leivo
17. Brendan Leipsic
16. Jeremy Bracco
15. Zach Hyman
14. Frank Corrado
13. Dmytro Timashov
12. Andreas Johnson
11. Kerby Rychel
10. Nikita Soshnikov
9. Kasperi Kapanen
8. Martin Marincin
7. Connor Carrick
6. Nikita Zaitsev
5. Connor Brown
4. Morgan Rielly
3. Mitch Marner
2. William Nylander
1. Auston Matthews (duh)
25. Christopher Gibson - traded
24. Matt Finn - traded
23. Scott Harrington - traded
22. Travis Dermott
21. Dmytro Timashov
20. Carter Verhaeghe - traded
19. Frederik Gauthier
18. Nikita Soshnikov
17. Taylor Beck - traded
16. Viktor Lööv
15. Josh Leivo
14. Jeremy Bracco
13. Stuart Percy - UFA'd
12. Brendan Leipsic
11. Andreas Johnson
10. Martin Marincin
9. Richard Panik - traded
8. Connor Brown
7. Peter Holland - graduated
6. Kasperi Kapanen
5. Mitch Marner
4. Nazem Kadri - graduated
3. Jake Gardiner - graduated
2. William Nylander
1. Morgan Rielly


TLN is doing a top 20 (Calder-eligible) prospects as well, so I'll track both here.

20. Garret Sparks
19. Kasmir Kaskisuo
18. Adam Brooks
17. Yegor Korshkov
16. Tobias Lindberg
15. Andrew Neilsen
14. Carl Grundstrom
13. Zach Hyman
12. Brendan Leipsic
11. Jeremy Bracco
10. Nikita Soshnikov
9. Travis Dermott
8. Dmytro Timashov
7. Andreas Johnson
6. Connor Brown
5. Kasperi Kapanen
4. Nikita Zaitsev
3. William Nylander
2. Mitch Marner
1. Auston Matthews
« Last Edit: September 09, 2016, 09:40:41 AM by herman »

Offline Coco-puffs

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Re: Ranking Prospects Post-Matthews
« Reply #1 on: July 11, 2016, 12:28:38 PM »
Sure, I'll take a stab.

1. Auston Matthews
Mitch Marner
Morgan Rielly
William Nylander
5. Nikita Zaitsev
Connor Brown
Kasperi Kapanen
Connor Carrick
Zach Hyman
10. Nikita Soshnikov
Jeremy Bracco
Kerby Rychel
Travis Dermott
Dmytro Timashov
15. Martin Marincin
Andreas Johnson
Frank Corrado
Yegor Korshkov
Carl Grundstrom
20. Brendan Leipsic
Josh Leivo
Andrew Nielsen
Martins Dzierkals
Rinat Valiev
Frederik Gauthier

I combined NHL potential and NHL readiness in my ranking- I tried not to value one over the other. 

Gauthier had to make the list IMO because he's going to play in the NHL as a 4th line center, face-off specialist, and PK forward.  Probably in 2017-2018.  In the next group were a bunch of goalies, Brooks, and Greenway.

Offline TBLeafer

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Re: Ranking Prospects Post-Matthews
« Reply #2 on: July 11, 2016, 02:16:02 PM »
My list is a little different.  I have a slightly different definition of what qualifies as a prospect.  To me a prospect is one that has yet to crack an NHL roster.

A U 25 roster player is a U 25 roster player, not a prospect, so in my prospect pool, Morgan Rielly for instance, doesn't qualify.  He's a core player, signed long term.  That being said, here are my top 20 prospects:

Ranked on both NHL readiness and long term success.

1. Auston Matthews
2. Mitch Marner
3. William Nylander
4. Nikita Zaitsev
5. Connor Carrick
6. Connor Brown
7. Zach Hyman
8. Nikita Soshnikov
9. Kerby Rychel
10. Kasperi Kapanen
11. Travis Dermott
12. Jeremy Bracco
13. Viktor Loov
14. Tobias Lindberg
15. Brendan Leipsic
16. Antoine Bibeau
17. Andrew Nielsen
18. Frederik Gauthier
19. Josh Leivo
20. Garret Sparks

Not qualified in my list are the likes of Corrado, Rielly, Marincin, etc. as they have already both played their rookie season and aren't currently in the minors.

Offline Bender

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Re: Ranking Prospects Post-Matthews
« Reply #3 on: July 11, 2016, 03:12:50 PM »
My list is a little different.  I have a slightly different definition of what qualifies as a prospect.  To me a prospect is one that has yet to crack an NHL roster.

A U 25 roster player is a U 25 roster player, not a prospect, so in my prospect pool, Morgan Rielly for instance, doesn't qualify.  He's a core player, signed long term.  That being said, here are my top 20 prospects:

Ranked on both NHL readiness and long term success.

1. Auston Matthews
2. Mitch Marner
3. William Nylander
4. Nikita Zaitsev
5. Connor Carrick
6. Connor Brown
7. Zach Hyman
8. Nikita Soshnikov
9. Kerby Rychel
10. Kasperi Kapanen
11. Travis Dermott
12. Jeremy Bracco
13. Viktor Loov
14. Tobias Lindberg
15. Brendan Leipsic
16. Antoine Bibeau
17. Andrew Nielsen
18. Frederik Gauthier
19. Josh Leivo
20. Garret Sparks

Not qualified in my list are the likes of Corrado, Rielly, Marincin, etc. as they have already both played their rookie season and aren't currently in the minors.

Yeah but the PPP article isn't about whether they've played in the NHL or not. It literally is what is says: Players U25 are eligible for the list.
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Offline TBLeafer

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Re: Ranking Prospects Post-Matthews
« Reply #4 on: July 11, 2016, 03:24:07 PM »
My list is a little different.  I have a slightly different definition of what qualifies as a prospect.  To me a prospect is one that has yet to crack an NHL roster.

A U 25 roster player is a U 25 roster player, not a prospect, so in my prospect pool, Morgan Rielly for instance, doesn't qualify.  He's a core player, signed long term.  That being said, here are my top 20 prospects:

Ranked on both NHL readiness and long term success.

1. Auston Matthews
2. Mitch Marner
3. William Nylander
4. Nikita Zaitsev
5. Connor Carrick
6. Connor Brown
7. Zach Hyman
8. Nikita Soshnikov
9. Kerby Rychel
10. Kasperi Kapanen
11. Travis Dermott
12. Jeremy Bracco
13. Viktor Loov
14. Tobias Lindberg
15. Brendan Leipsic
16. Antoine Bibeau
17. Andrew Nielsen
18. Frederik Gauthier
19. Josh Leivo
20. Garret Sparks

Not qualified in my list are the likes of Corrado, Rielly, Marincin, etc. as they have already both played their rookie season and aren't currently in the minors.

Yeah but the PPP article isn't about whether they've played in the NHL or not. It literally is what is says: Players U25 are eligible for the list.

Understood, but I'm not going off the PPP article.  Plus it isn't hard to see who I'm omitting.  Top young talent is different than prospect rankings wouldn't you say?  It makes no sense to me to rank Rielly as a prospect is all.

Offline Arn

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Re: Ranking Prospects Post-Matthews
« Reply #5 on: July 11, 2016, 04:50:08 PM »
You do love to be contrary  ;D ;)
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Offline TBLeafer

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Re: Ranking Prospects Post-Matthews
« Reply #6 on: July 11, 2016, 05:17:01 PM »
You do love to be contrary  ;D ;)

LOL!  ;D

Offline Nik the Trik

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Re: Ranking Prospects Post-Matthews
« Reply #7 on: July 11, 2016, 05:17:16 PM »
I'm going to be ranking them based on whose name, if they were characters in a novel you bought at the airport, would make you question the author's judgment the most:

1. Kerby Rychel
2. Auston Matthews
3. Jack Walker
4. Yegor Korshkov
5. Antoine Bibeau
6. Garret Sparks
7. Carl Grundstrom
8. Morgan Rielly
9. Viktor Loov
10. Connor Carrick

Give a man the reputation of an early riser and he can sleep 'til noon
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Offline bustaheims

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Re: Ranking Prospects Post-Matthews
« Reply #8 on: July 11, 2016, 06:31:18 PM »
I'm going to be ranking them based on whose name, if they were characters in a novel you bought at the airport, would make you question the author's judgment the most:

1. Kerby Rychel
2. Auston Matthews
3. Jack Walker
4. Yegor Korshkov
5. Antoine Bibeau
6. Garret Sparks
7. Carl Grundstrom
8. Morgan Rielly
9. Viktor Loov
10. Connor Carrick

This list is invalid without Dakota Joshua as the #1.
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Offline Frank E

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Re: Ranking Prospects Post-Matthews
« Reply #9 on: July 11, 2016, 07:10:26 PM »
I'm going to be ranking them based on whose name, if they were characters in a novel you bought at the airport, would make you question the author's judgment the most:

1. Kerby Rychel
2. Auston Matthews
3. Jack Walker
4. Yegor Korshkov
5. Antoine Bibeau
6. Garret Sparks
7. Carl Grundstrom
8. Morgan Rielly
9. Viktor Loov
10. Connor Carrick

This list is invalid without Dakota Joshua as the #1.

The omission of a guy named Vladimir Bobylev was enough for me to throw it away.

Garbage List.

Offline Nik the Trik

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Re: Ranking Prospects Post-Matthews
« Reply #10 on: July 11, 2016, 07:24:10 PM »

5 worst omissions from my Airport Novel list:

1. Dakota Joshua
2. Rinat Valiev
3. JD Greenway
4. Nikita Korostelev
5. Keaton Middleton
Give a man the reputation of an early riser and he can sleep 'til noon
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Offline RedLeaf

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Re: Ranking Prospects Post-Matthews
« Reply #11 on: July 11, 2016, 08:14:58 PM »
My list is a little different.  I have a slightly different definition of what qualifies as a prospect.  To me a prospect is one that has yet to crack an NHL roster.

A U 25 roster player is a U 25 roster player, not a prospect, so in my prospect pool, Morgan Rielly for instance, doesn't qualify.  He's a core player, signed long term.  That being said, here are my top 20 prospects:

Ranked on both NHL readiness and long term success.

1. Mitch Marner
2. Auston Matthews
3. William Nylander
4. Nikita Zaitsev
5. Connor Carrick
6. Connor Brown
7. Zach Hyman
8. Nikita Soshnikov
9. Kerby Rychel
10. Kasperi Kapanen
11. Travis Dermott
12. Jeremy Bracco
13. Viktor Loov
14. Tobias Lindberg
15. Brendan Leipsic
16. Antoine Bibeau
17. Andrew Nielsen
18. Frederik Gauthier
19. Josh Leivo
20. Garret Sparks

Not qualified in my list are the likes of Corrado, Rielly, Marincin, etc. as they have already both played their rookie season and aren't currently in the minors.

I made ONE change to your list. I don't know if I believe it. At least not yet. I just don't think we should all assume we have the number one and two in the correct order. I'd like to at least see them both play in an exhibition game first before I'm completely comfortable putting them in order. Anyone else think there's a chance?
« Last Edit: July 11, 2016, 08:29:13 PM by RedLeaf »
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Offline Nik the Trik

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Re: Ranking Prospects Post-Matthews
« Reply #12 on: July 11, 2016, 08:20:17 PM »
Technically, Rychel, Leivo and Carrick aren't rookies either as none would be eligible for the Calder next year.
« Last Edit: July 11, 2016, 08:21:55 PM by Nik the Trik »
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Offline pmrules

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Re: Ranking Prospects Post-Matthews
« Reply #13 on: July 12, 2016, 06:45:59 AM »
It is a haul of picks, and it is too early to say it would have been the wrong decision, even now in hindsight.

 If I'm understanding correctly, I guess I was just under the impression that Hunter was drafting Marner at that spot as a first priority and plan. If the link it to be believed, they didn't think enough of him to prefer giving up that spot and trading down. That surprised me.

Me too but, to give the organization credit, I think there's real value in exploring all of your options. That very well might have been a "they'll never give us all that, will they?" sort of offer.

If the Leafs think Columbus' rookie GM wants Hanafin, they make the offer to see if they'll bite.  It was the Leafs trying to take advantage here, not so much them not liking Marner.

They seemed to like Werenski enough to keep their stash.

So, I agree.

Just saw this conversation for the first time as this thread was brought back up the last day or so. 

My understanding was that the leafs put this in front of Columbus just in case Marner was taken at 3 and that Hanifin was available for Columbus at 4.  They were only interested in executing their trade down strategy if Marner was off the table.

Which is interesting because, if memory serves correct,  Nonis was considering a trade down deal with St. Louis for their 1st and their 2  2nds when the Nylander pick came up, but Shanahan over turned him. 

Offline TBLeafer

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Re: Ranking Prospects Post-Matthews
« Reply #14 on: July 12, 2016, 08:14:51 AM »

I made ONE change to your list. I don't know if I believe it. At least not yet. I just don't think we should all assume we have the number one and two in the correct order. I'd like to at least see them both play in an exhibition game first before I'm completely comfortable putting them in order. Anyone else think there's a chance?

Hey, to each his own, Marner has crazy skill but I give Matthews the edge due to 1C NHL potential.  We are very lucky to have them BOTH!

Technically, Rychel, Leivo and Carrick aren't rookies either as none would be eligible for the Calder next year.

They've also never made an NHL roster full time, just a smattering of games here and there, bounced up and down, that's why they still qualify for me.  So NHL rookies, no... prospects... yes.

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Re: Ranking Prospects Post-Matthews
« Reply #14 on: July 12, 2016, 08:14:51 AM »