Author Topic: Randy Carlyle After JVR for Fowler +?  (Read 3441 times)

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Offline No.92

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Re: Randy Carlyle After JVR for Fowler +?
« Reply #30 on: June 22, 2016, 02:27:52 PM »
I hope we don't deal JVR, I think he is a keeper.

I honestly think the next trade chip to fall is Bozak.

While I'd hate to see him go, I could live with that.  Or move him or Kadri to the wing.  I think Kadri to the wing would be a better move IMO.  He's not as good of a playmaker as Bozak and that's what you want in an offensive center. 

How about we get rid of Lupul's contract first?  If Lupul could somehow regain his form, he could be quite useful in the top 9. 

Offline bustaheims

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Re: Randy Carlyle After JVR for Fowler +?
« Reply #31 on: June 22, 2016, 02:34:31 PM »
I hope we don't deal JVR, I think he is a keeper.

The issue with JvR is that, while he's a bargain now, in two years, he'll be looking for a significant raise - probably into the $7M+ per year range. In the next years, realistically, the Leafs won't be contending for a Cup, and, when they are approaching that stage, they'll need the cap space for more important pieces than a goal scoring winger. He's at his most valuable in terms of a trade piece right now, while his value to the team is approaching it's lowest.
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Offline Nik the Trik

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Re: Randy Carlyle After JVR for Fowler +?
« Reply #32 on: June 22, 2016, 02:36:18 PM »
Agreed.  Why would you get rid of a proven commodity at the prime of his career for potentially unknowns.  Sure we need a 1A or 1B defenseman to go with Rielly but try to figure out another way.  He's our 1st line winger and if you get rid of him then you'll be trying to fill that 1st line winger position now.  I would be totally fine if we can bring in some less flashy, defensive defencemen from the Marlies or free agency.  We already have our flashy, mobile defensemen in Rielly, Gardiner, Zaitsev, and maybe Carrick.  We don't need another.

A lot of it has to do with money. Right now JVR is a great bargain but in two years' time he's probably going to be looking for a huge contract extension that probably won't make sense for the Leafs to sign if, the year after, they have to sign Matthews and Marner to extensions.

So the question becomes do you trade JVR now when his value is higher than it will be then? Or do you trade him in two years? Or let him walk? Being as most people don't think the Leafs are going to be terribly competitive over the next two years, what's the point in having him on the wing? Especially when so many people are high on Marner eventually being the #1 wing.

Trading a player doesn't mean you think they're not good. Just that you realize the limitations of the salary cap and know that trading good players is how you bring back high level assets. Phil Kessel was a really good player when Boston decided to trade him but they did pretty well by it.
« Last Edit: June 22, 2016, 02:48:54 PM by Nik the Trik »
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Offline Nik the Trik

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Re: Randy Carlyle After JVR for Fowler +?
« Reply #33 on: June 22, 2016, 02:45:32 PM »

How about we get rid of Lupul's contract first?  If Lupul could somehow regain his form, he could be quite useful in the top 9.

Right now you've got Sosh, Hyman, Matthews, Marner, Nylander, Kadri, Komarov and, as of now, Bozak and JVR. One of the kids might start on the 4th line but realistically the top 9 is more or less full.
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Offline mr grieves

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Re: Randy Carlyle After JVR for Fowler +?
« Reply #34 on: June 22, 2016, 02:46:49 PM »
Agreed.  Why would you get rid of a proven commodity at the prime of his career for potentially unknowns.  Sure we need a 1A or 1B defenseman to go with Rielly but try to figure out another way.  He's our 1st line winger and if you get rid of him then you'll be trying to fill that 1st line winger position now.  I would be totally fine if we can bring in some less flashy, defensive defencemen from the Marlies or free agency.  We already have our flashy, mobile defensemen in Rielly, Gardiner, Zaitsev, and maybe Carrick.  We don't need another.

A lot of it has to do with money. Right now JVR is a great bargain but in two years' time he's probably going to be looking for a huge contract extension that probably won't make sense for the Leafs to sign if, the year after, they have to sign Matthews and Marner to extensions.

So the question becomes do you trade JVR now when his value is higher than it will be then? Or do you trade him in two years? Or let him walk? Being as most people don't think the Leafs are going to be terribly competitive over the next two years, what's the point in having him on the wing? Especially when so many people are high on Marner eventually being the #1 wing.

Trading a player doesn't mean you think they're not good. Just that you realize that the limitations of the salary cap and know that trading good players is how you bring back high level assets. Phil Kessel was a really good player when Boston decided to trade him but they did pretty well by it.

Yeah, in terms of his value/contract and age, and the organization's positional strengths, he's really the best candidate to move for a significant blueline upgrade. It's a compliment to him.


Offline bustaheims

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Re: Randy Carlyle After JVR for Fowler +?
« Reply #35 on: June 22, 2016, 02:49:57 PM »
Yeah, in terms of his value/contract and age, and the organization's positional strengths, he's really the best candidate to move for a significant blueline upgrade. It's a compliment to him.

Exactly. No one is talking about trying to get rid of him, but, rather, sacrifice a little of the present to help improve future. Short-term pain for long-term gain.
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Online RedLeaf

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Re: Randy Carlyle After JVR for Fowler +?
« Reply #36 on: June 22, 2016, 03:59:41 PM »
Agreed.  Why would you get rid of a proven commodity at the prime of his career for potentially unknowns.  Sure we need a 1A or 1B defenseman to go with Rielly but try to figure out another way.  He's our 1st line winger and if you get rid of him then you'll be trying to fill that 1st line winger position now.  I would be totally fine if we can bring in some less flashy, defensive defencemen from the Marlies or free agency.  We already have our flashy, mobile defensemen in Rielly, Gardiner, Zaitsev, and maybe Carrick.  We don't need another.

A lot of it has to do with money. Right now JVR is a great bargain but in two years' time he's probably going to be looking for a huge contract extension that probably won't make sense for the Leafs to sign if, the year after, they have to sign Matthews and Marner to extensions.

So the question becomes do you trade JVR now when his value is higher than it will be then? Or do you trade him in two years? Or let him walk? Being as most people don't think the Leafs are going to be terribly competitive over the next two years, what's the point in having him on the wing? Especially when so many people are high on Marner eventually being the #1 wing.

Trading a player doesn't mean you think they're not good. Just that you realize that the limitations of the salary cap and know that trading good players is how you bring back high level assets. Phil Kessel was a really good player when Boston decided to trade him but they did pretty well by it.

Yeah, in terms of his value/contract and age, and the organization's positional strengths, he's really the best candidate to move for a significant blueline upgrade. It's a compliment to him.

You could trade him straight up, for....oh... I dunno...Luke Schenn?
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Offline Tigger

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Re: Randy Carlyle After JVR for Fowler +?
« Reply #37 on: June 24, 2016, 07:57:13 AM »
You could trade him straight up, for....oh... I dunno...Luke Schenn?

I'm sure LA would love to have him, but straight up? Maybe they want a sweetener added for the soon to be ufa?
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Offline TBLeafer

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Re: Randy Carlyle After JVR for Fowler +?
« Reply #38 on: June 24, 2016, 10:05:47 AM »

Offline LuncheonMeat

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Re: Randy Carlyle After JVR for Fowler +?
« Reply #39 on: June 24, 2016, 12:19:38 PM »

I'm not sure how that fuels Subban speculation. If the Ducks add Jakob Silfverberg and a couple of 1st-round picks, maybe that fuels speculation.
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Offline Nik the Trik

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Re: Randy Carlyle After JVR for Fowler +?
« Reply #40 on: June 24, 2016, 12:26:27 PM »
I'm not sure how that fuels Subban speculation. If the Ducks add Jakob Silfverberg and a couple of 1st-round picks, maybe that fuels speculation.

I think the idea is that Fowler would be seen as a Subban replacement of sorts. Because otherwise it probably wouldn't make a ton of sense to pay what the Ducks are probably asking for Fowler so he can be your #2 LHD.
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Offline LuncheonMeat

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Re: Randy Carlyle After JVR for Fowler +?
« Reply #41 on: June 24, 2016, 12:51:32 PM »
I'm not sure how that fuels Subban speculation. If the Ducks add Jakob Silfverberg and a couple of 1st-round picks, maybe that fuels speculation.

I think the idea is that Fowler would be seen as a Subban replacement of sorts. Because otherwise it probably wouldn't make a ton of sense to pay what the Ducks are probably asking for Fowler so he can be your #2 LHD.

I figured, it's just hard to think about replacing your franchise, 1st pairing, Norris trophy-winning defenceman with Cam Fowler. I think Habs fans would all lose their collective minds.
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Online CarltonTheBear

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Re: Randy Carlyle After JVR for Fowler +?
« Reply #42 on: June 24, 2016, 12:55:04 PM »
I figured, it's just hard to think about replacing your franchise, 1st pairing, Norris trophy-winning defenceman with Cam Fowler. I think Habs fans would all lose their collective minds.

I imagine he's more of a future replacement for Markov, or someone who can push Markov down to the 2nd pairing where he better belongs. I don't think those discussions really have anything to do with Subban.

Offline TBLeafer

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Re: Randy Carlyle After JVR for Fowler +?
« Reply #43 on: June 24, 2016, 12:55:08 PM »
I'm not sure how that fuels Subban speculation. If the Ducks add Jakob Silfverberg and a couple of 1st-round picks, maybe that fuels speculation.

I think the idea is that Fowler would be seen as a Subban replacement of sorts. Because otherwise it probably wouldn't make a ton of sense to pay what the Ducks are probably asking for Fowler so he can be your #2 LHD.

I figured, it's just hard to think about replacing your franchise, 1st pairing, Norris trophy-winning defenceman with Cam Fowler. I think Habs fans would all lose their collective minds.

I think that depends on what went along with Fowler. 

Offline KW Sluggo

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Re: Randy Carlyle After JVR for Fowler +?
« Reply #44 on: June 24, 2016, 01:45:37 PM »

I'm not sure how that fuels Subban speculation. If the Ducks add Jakob Silfverberg and a couple of 1st-round picks, maybe that fuels speculation.

I don't think the speculation is with respect to Subban being part of a trade to Anaheim for Fowler.

Rather I believe the theory is that if Montreal is looking for a defence man such as Fowler, it is perhaps simply because they have traded Subban away in another transaction thereby creating the need to replace him.

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Re: Randy Carlyle After JVR for Fowler +?
« Reply #44 on: June 24, 2016, 01:45:37 PM »