Author Topic: Randy Carlyle After JVR for Fowler +?  (Read 3439 times)

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Offline TBLeafer

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Randy Carlyle After JVR for Fowler +?
« on: June 22, 2016, 08:24:03 AM »
http://thehockeypress.ca/posts/20218576/nhl-trade-rumors--rick-nash-to-anaheim-ducks-st--louis-blues--very-close----james-van-riemsdyk-for-cam-fowler--h3----draft-fa---oilers--sabres--stamkos--datsyuk---and-more.html

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TheHockeyPress has heard Ducks new coach Randy Carlyle has loved James Van Riemsdyk' play ever since he coached in Toronto. Just his size and the ability to score amazes Randy. One source specifically told us Randy has approached Ducks GM saying to acquire JVR, and while they tried to get him w/Fredrik Andersen it didn't work out but reports indicates, Ducks aren't going to give up. We can confirm ANH/TOR are still constantly talking in hopes of making a JVR/Fowler trade. While the Toronto Maple Leafs do hold a lot of value to Van Riemsdyk's name, they are willing to trade him for a price, and the price is reportedly a defenseman [Cam Fowler], and Prospects/Picks. The talks are getting closer and closer as we speak. The teams may hold off the deal until the draft, but watch out for this to be the topic of the day on Friday.

Online Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate

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Re: Randy Carlyle After JVR for Fowler +?
« Reply #1 on: June 22, 2016, 08:35:16 AM »
Insert Lindholm for Fowler and then we can begin talking.

Offline Nik the Trik

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Re: Randy Carlyle After JVR for Fowler +?
« Reply #2 on: June 22, 2016, 08:41:19 AM »

That does not seem like a particularly professional looking site.
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Offline TBLeafer

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Re: Randy Carlyle After JVR for Fowler +?
« Reply #3 on: June 22, 2016, 08:42:07 AM »
Insert Lindholm for Fowler and then we can begin talking.

That's the obvious preference but Lindholm is their Rielly.  Not happening.

This trade possibility is being batted about on Sportsnet, too.

Anaheim would need to add a pick/prospect (my guess is blue chip) to Fowler to make it work.

Offline bustaheims

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Re: Randy Carlyle After JVR for Fowler +?
« Reply #4 on: June 22, 2016, 08:42:49 AM »
I'm not sure Fowler would be my top target - the fact that he's already had a few knee issues is a concern - but, I don't think the value is awful. That being said, I do question the validity of the source here, being that it's basically a fan run blog.

Feels a little more like a connect the dots type rumour - Ducks need help on the wing, are probably looking to get value for one of their defencemen before the expansion draft, and there's a connection between Carlyle and JvR. The Leafs are looking for D, and are rumoured to be open to moving JvR. Not convinced there's more to it than that.
« Last Edit: June 22, 2016, 08:44:42 AM by bustaheims »
"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

Offline TBLeafer

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Re: Randy Carlyle After JVR for Fowler +?
« Reply #5 on: June 22, 2016, 08:45:04 AM »

That does not seem like a particularly professional looking site.

No it appears to be a blogger site but even they can sometimes luck into a good trade source.

This one is legit:

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/nhl-trade-rumours-marc-andre-fleury-calgary-flames-first-round-draft-pick-jimmy-vesey-cam-fowler-red-wings-shattenkirk-oilers-rangers-bruins-sharks/

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RFA Hampus Lindholm is without a contract for next season, but it's versatile 24-year-old Cam Fowler signed for two more seasons at $4 million each whose name is getting tossed around this week.

Loui Eriksson (UFA), James van Riemsdyk, Rick Nash and Taylor Hall have been suggested as fits for Anaheim.

We all know how high on JVR Randy Carlyle was.  He was even his go to guy when Bozak went down as 1C over Kadri.  ;)
« Last Edit: June 22, 2016, 08:46:40 AM by TBLeafer »

Offline CarltonTheBear

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Re: Randy Carlyle After JVR for Fowler +?
« Reply #6 on: June 22, 2016, 08:46:12 AM »
Yeah, Fowler really does nothing for me. We already have 2 lefties better than him.

Offline Nik the Trik

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Re: Randy Carlyle After JVR for Fowler +?
« Reply #7 on: June 22, 2016, 08:50:42 AM »
No it appears to be a blogger site but even they can sometimes luck into a good trade source.

How? Who with inside information is going to call up this blogger and leak to him? What's his source? What's his record of reliability?

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RFA Hampus Lindholm is without a contract for next season, but it's versatile 24-year-old Cam Fowler signed for two more seasons at $4 million each whose name is getting tossed around this week.

Loui Eriksson (UFA), James van Riemsdyk, Rick Nash and Taylor Hall have been suggested as fits for Anaheim.

We all know how high on JVR Randy Carlyle was.  He was even his go to guy when Bozak went down as 1C over Kadri.  ;)

There's a very big difference between saying someone has been "suggested as a fit" which you or I can do and is what the Sportsnet piece reports and saying that discussions about the trade have already happened, which is what the blogger is saying and which requires inside information.
Give a man the reputation of an early riser and he can sleep 'til noon
-Mark Twain

Offline Bill_Berg

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Re: Randy Carlyle After JVR for Fowler +?
« Reply #8 on: June 22, 2016, 09:08:23 AM »
They make this claim:

"One source specifically told us Randy has approached Ducks GM saying to acquire JVR"

Lying? Do people do that on the Internet?

Offline TBLeafer

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Re: Randy Carlyle After JVR for Fowler +?
« Reply #9 on: June 22, 2016, 09:23:33 AM »
No it appears to be a blogger site but even they can sometimes luck into a good trade source.

How? Who with inside information is going to call up this blogger and leak to him? What's his source? What's his record of reliability?

Quote
RFA Hampus Lindholm is without a contract for next season, but it's versatile 24-year-old Cam Fowler signed for two more seasons at $4 million each whose name is getting tossed around this week.

Loui Eriksson (UFA), James van Riemsdyk, Rick Nash and Taylor Hall have been suggested as fits for Anaheim.

We all know how high on JVR Randy Carlyle was.  He was even his go to guy when Bozak went down as 1C over Kadri.  ;)

There's a very big difference between saying someone has been "suggested as a fit" which you or I can do and is what the Sportsnet piece reports and saying that discussions about the trade have already happened, which is what the blogger is saying and which requires inside information.

Is it out of the realm of possibility? Because that's all that rumours are anyway.

Not one insider names their source that I can think of.  If they ever leak a source, nobody would ever privilege them with insider information.

Offline Nik the Trik

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Re: Randy Carlyle After JVR for Fowler +?
« Reply #10 on: June 22, 2016, 09:32:12 AM »
Is it out of the realm of possibility? Because that's all that rumours are anyway.

Well, rumours are fundamentally claims of something that did or didn't happen. Either the Leafs and Ducks did talk about it or they didn't. Something being believable isn't just whether or not something is possible, it's whether or not someone is in a reasonable position to know something that the public doesn't.

Not one insider names their source that I can think of.  If they ever leak a source, nobody would ever privilege them with insider information.

Sure, which is why guys like Dreger and McKenzie and Friedman trade on their history, reliability and positions of relative authority. Absent those there's nothing to go on.

But more than that, frequently Dreger or McKenzie or Friedman will cite a "team source" or "league source" which is at the very least a statement of where the information is coming from. Again, these guys comport to standards of journalism because it's playing by those standards that give them credibility.

It's also why, for instance, you don't tend to see them tweet trade rumours nobody else is.
Give a man the reputation of an early riser and he can sleep 'til noon
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Online herman

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Re: Randy Carlyle After JVR for Fowler +?
« Reply #11 on: June 22, 2016, 09:40:28 AM »
Reddit posters have mentioned a few times (without citation) that Anaheim loves Fowler more than Lindholm. That excites me, but until I see a quote from Murray about that, I am going to just keep Lindholm in that wish pile.

Offline TBLeafer

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Re: Randy Carlyle After JVR for Fowler +?
« Reply #12 on: June 22, 2016, 09:43:25 AM »
Is it out of the realm of possibility? Because that's all that rumours are anyway.

Well, rumours are fundamentally claims of something that did or didn't happen. Either the Leafs and Ducks did talk about it or they didn't. Something being believable isn't just whether or not something is possible, it's whether or not someone is in a reasonable position to know something that the public doesn't.

Not one insider names their source that I can think of.  If they ever leak a source, nobody would ever privilege them with insider information.

Sure, which is why guys like Dreger and McKenzie and Friedman trade on their history, reliability and positions of relative authority. Absent those there's nothing to go on.

But more than that, frequently Dreger or McKenzie or Friedman will cite a "team source" or "league source" which is at the very least a statement of where the information is coming from. Again, these guys comport to standards of journalism because it's playing by those standards that give them credibility.

It's also why, for instance, you don't tend to see them tweet trade rumours nobody else is.

Actually, concerning the Leafs, they don't really tweet ANY 'rumours' anymore.  They tweet things about to happen with one of McKenzie, Derger, LeBrun, Freige etc. being given the details to 'break' the pending deal.

That's the way Lou rolls.

Why be so critical and suspicious of a rumour in your neverending campaign to discredit?

Why not just happily discuss the possibility of the trade happening?  What could be added to Fowler to make the deal work?  You're no fun.  :(

Offline Nik the Trik

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Re: Randy Carlyle After JVR for Fowler +?
« Reply #13 on: June 22, 2016, 09:51:58 AM »
Why be so critical and suspicious of a rumour in your neverending campaign to discredit?

Because you posted it to the Media Rumours board. I was pointing out it didn't really fit the definition and what was being reported was almost certainly false. Now that it's been moved by the mods to the General Rumours and Speculation board, I'm happy to speculate on the general idea of trading for Fowler. Observe:

I think Fowler would be our #3 LHD. As such, I don't think he should be a major target of our one big remaining trade chip in JVR. Ideally JVR will be used to land a pick/prospect that projects out to potentially be a top pairing partner for Rielly or even a #1. Lindholm yes, Fowler nah.
Give a man the reputation of an early riser and he can sleep 'til noon
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Online herman

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Re: Randy Carlyle After JVR for Fowler +?
« Reply #14 on: June 22, 2016, 09:55:28 AM »
Let's say we get Lindholm.

Do you run him with Rielly, or do you run him on the second pairing backing up Gardiner - Rielly?

I like the Gardiner - Rielly pairing, as Rielly really needs shot suppression help.

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Re: Randy Carlyle After JVR for Fowler +?
« Reply #14 on: June 22, 2016, 09:55:28 AM »