Author Topic: Just When You Thought Bettman Couldn't Sink Any Lower  (Read 2251 times)

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Offline Significantly Insignificant

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Re: Just When You Thought Bettman Couldn't Sink Any Lower
« Reply #30 on: June 10, 2016, 02:58:49 PM »
Yes we all know going to a court for a corporation is free.  ::)

No one is saying it's free. We're saying it has no impact on how the cap is calculated - because it has no impact on how the cap is calculate. The league is free to do whatever they want with their half of HRR.

But if they have enough HRR to frivolously spend taking a settled case to court, I think they can project well enough on the back of the centennial with the added revenue of the World Cup to raise the cap a little, yes?

Actually they can't.  It has nothing to do with projection.  It has to do with a hard mathematical formula.  They plug in the numbers from the last year, and the new cap number comes out.  There is no way of getting around it.  That's actually what the players wanted so that teams couldn't hide revenue from them.
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Offline bustaheims

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Re: Just When You Thought Bettman Couldn't Sink Any Lower
« Reply #31 on: June 10, 2016, 03:01:36 PM »
But if they have enough HRR to frivolously spend taking a settled case to court, I think they can project well enough on the back of the centennial with the added revenue of the World Cup to raise the cap a little, yes?

Also not how it works. The cap is based on the previous season's HRR, not future projections. The World Cup, the Leafs' centennial, etc., cannot be factored in to the 16/17. They will be factored in to 17/18 (to the extent that they can be - I'm not sure how the World Cup gets included there). I also don't think the Leafs' centennial is going to have a significant impact, either. Any increases to the league's revenue it will have will have to be halved and then split 30 (or 31/32) ways. It take an increase of $60M-$64M in revenue to raise the cap $1M.
« Last Edit: June 10, 2016, 03:05:09 PM by bustaheims »
"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

Offline Significantly Insignificant

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Re: Just When You Thought Bettman Couldn't Sink Any Lower
« Reply #32 on: June 10, 2016, 03:05:44 PM »
But if they have enough HRR to frivolously spend taking a settled case to court, I think they can project well enough on the back of the centennial with the added revenue of the World Cup to raise the cap a little, yes?

Also not how it works. The cap is based on the previous season's HRR, not future projections. The World Cup, the Leafs' centennial, etc., cannot be factored in to the 16/17. They will be factored in to 17/18 (to the extent that they can be - I'm not sure how the World Cup gets included there).

It looks like it isn't figured in to the cap at all:

"The league expects this World Cup to generate over US$100 million in revenue. All profits count outside of hockey-related revenue and is split 50/50 between the league and NHLPA."

From here:
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/hockey/nhl-announces-that-world-cup-of-hockey-will-return-in-2016-with-new-format/article22623402/
"Progress lies not in enhancing what is, but in advancing toward what will be. - Khalil Gibran

Offline Nik the Trik

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Re: Just When You Thought Bettman Couldn't Sink Any Lower
« Reply #33 on: June 10, 2016, 03:06:07 PM »
Yes we all know going to a court for a corporation is free.  ::)

Typically the court costs for a corporation come from hiring outside counsel, experts and the like. If you already have attorneys and are just using them, what do you think it costs them?
Give a man the reputation of an early riser and he can sleep 'til noon
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Offline bustaheims

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Re: Just When You Thought Bettman Couldn't Sink Any Lower
« Reply #34 on: June 10, 2016, 03:06:52 PM »
It looks like it isn't figured in to the cap at all:

"The league expects this World Cup to generate over US$100 million in revenue. All profits count outside of hockey-related revenue and is split 50/50 between the league and NHLPA."

From here:
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/hockey/nhl-announces-that-world-cup-of-hockey-will-return-in-2016-with-new-format/article22623402/

Yeah, that's what I thought, but I wasn't 100% sure.
"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

Offline TBLeafer

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Re: Just When You Thought Bettman Couldn't Sink Any Lower
« Reply #35 on: June 10, 2016, 03:07:19 PM »
Yes we all know going to a court for a corporation is free.  ::)

No one is saying it's free. We're saying it has no impact on how the cap is calculated - because it has no impact on how the cap is calculate. The league is free to do whatever they want with their half of HRR.

But if they have enough HRR to frivolously spend taking a settled case to court, I think they can project well enough on the back of the centennial with the added revenue of the World Cup to raise the cap a little, yes?

Actually they can't.  It has nothing to do with projection.  It has to do with a hard mathematical formula.  They plug in the numbers from the last year, and the new cap number comes out.  There is no way of getting around it.  That's actually what the players wanted so that teams couldn't hide revenue from them.

Funny how that projection keeps changing through as each season progresses then.  It was still at $74 in March, down from just $74.5 in December even with the weaker dollar.

Now it's $69.5 just three months later?  Did the hard mathematical formula suddenly change? 

Offline Significantly Insignificant

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Re: Just When You Thought Bettman Couldn't Sink Any Lower
« Reply #36 on: June 10, 2016, 03:09:18 PM »
Yes we all know going to a court for a corporation is free.  ::)

No one is saying it's free. We're saying it has no impact on how the cap is calculated - because it has no impact on how the cap is calculate. The league is free to do whatever they want with their half of HRR.

But if they have enough HRR to frivolously spend taking a settled case to court, I think they can project well enough on the back of the centennial with the added revenue of the World Cup to raise the cap a little, yes?

Actually they can't.  It has nothing to do with projection.  It has to do with a hard mathematical formula.  They plug in the numbers from the last year, and the new cap number comes out.  There is no way of getting around it.  That's actually what the players wanted so that teams couldn't hide revenue from them.

Funny how that projection keeps changing through as each season progresses then.  It was still at $74 in March, down from just $74.5 in December even with the weaker dollar.

Now it's $69.5 just three months later?  Did the hard mathematical formula suddenly change?

No it's because they don't know what the HRR is until the end of the season.  So the projections are based on how they think the teams are going to do.  Then when the actual numbers come in, that's when they set the cap.  That's why you hear about "Experts expect cap to be set at XXXX" because they are basing it on the early projection on what the HRR number is going to be at the end of the year.
"Progress lies not in enhancing what is, but in advancing toward what will be. - Khalil Gibran

Offline TBLeafer

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Re: Just When You Thought Bettman Couldn't Sink Any Lower
« Reply #37 on: June 10, 2016, 03:10:25 PM »
But if they have enough HRR to frivolously spend taking a settled case to court, I think they can project well enough on the back of the centennial with the added revenue of the World Cup to raise the cap a little, yes?

Also not how it works. The cap is based on the previous season's HRR, not future projections. The World Cup, the Leafs' centennial, etc., cannot be factored in to the 16/17. They will be factored in to 17/18 (to the extent that they can be - I'm not sure how the World Cup gets included there).

It looks like it isn't figured in to the cap at all:

"The league expects this World Cup to generate over US$100 million in revenue. All profits count outside of hockey-related revenue and is split 50/50 between the league and NHLPA."

From here:
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/hockey/nhl-announces-that-world-cup-of-hockey-will-return-in-2016-with-new-format/article22623402/

Thanks.  This is why I join Leafs forums.  Because people question things and I learn stuff.  8)

Offline Nik the Trik

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Re: Just When You Thought Bettman Couldn't Sink Any Lower
« Reply #38 on: June 10, 2016, 03:13:24 PM »
Funny how that projection keeps changing through as each season progresses then.  It was still at $74 in March, down from just $74.5 in December even with the weaker dollar.

Now it's $69.5 just three months later?  Did the hard mathematical formula suddenly change?

Or, like in every business, revenue projections aren't a hard science.
Give a man the reputation of an early riser and he can sleep 'til noon
-Mark Twain

Offline Bullfrog

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Re: Just When You Thought Bettman Couldn't Sink Any Lower
« Reply #39 on: June 10, 2016, 04:16:13 PM »
The CBA is clear. They won't be arguing that an arbitrator's decision isn't binding, but that in this instance, the arbitrator acted outside of his authority. In essence, they're trying to limit an arbitrator's authority on these matters.

From a league perspective, this is absolutely something they should pursue.

Offline Mordac

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Re: Just When You Thought Bettman Couldn't Sink Any Lower
« Reply #40 on: September 04, 2016, 03:10:06 AM »
Thanks.  This is why I join Leafs forums.  Because people question things and I learn stuff.  8)

You seem to be resisting learning about how Bettman isn't driving this, and how it doesn't impact the cap in any way, shape, or form... ;)

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Re: Just When You Thought Bettman Couldn't Sink Any Lower
« Reply #40 on: September 04, 2016, 03:10:06 AM »