Author Topic: The Lupul Situation  (Read 7449 times)

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Offline bustaheims

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Re: The Lupul Situation
« Reply #15 on: September 17, 2017, 10:32:52 PM »

Lupul accurately describes what we all know is going on:

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/joffrey-lupul-calls-leafs-instagram-says-cheat/

The comment in question has been deleted (or never was - deleted being more likely), but, I question it. I have no doubt the Leafs - and every other professional sports team - bends the rules as much as possible. As Mark Grace is credited with saying, it you ain't cheating, you ain't trying hard enough. They're absolutely working in the grey areas. That's well accepted.

That being said, if Lupul truly believed he was healthy enough to pass a physical, why wouldn't he be pursuing a grievance against the team? Two full seasons of being not being deemed healthy enough to hit the ice has to have a significant negative impact on his earning potential going forward. If he really wants to play, why wouldn't he be doing everything in his power to get back on the ice? Based on the evidence we have, seems to me like either he's not actually healthy enough to play, or he's de facto retired already. So, why throw shade?
"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

Offline Nik the Trik

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Re: The Lupul Situation
« Reply #16 on: September 17, 2017, 11:02:08 PM »
The comment in question has been deleted (or never was - deleted being more likely), but, I question it. I have no doubt the Leafs - and every other professional sports team - bends the rules as much as possible. As Mark Grace is credited with saying, it you ain't cheating, you ain't trying hard enough. They're absolutely working in the grey areas. That's well accepted.

That being said, if Lupul truly believed he was healthy enough to pass a physical, why wouldn't he be pursuing a grievance against the team? Two full seasons of being not being deemed healthy enough to hit the ice has to have a significant negative impact on his earning potential going forward. If he really wants to play, why wouldn't he be doing everything in his power to get back on the ice? Based on the evidence we have, seems to me like either he's not actually healthy enough to play, or he's de facto retired already. So, why throw shade?

2 things. First, I don't really think you can look at things players say on Instagram and Twitter and then say "You know, this doesn't seem like it was carefully crafted for a net gain for his career" and resultingly doubt its veracity. People say impolitic stuff online.

But beyond that, if Lupul did file a grievance what is the ultimate positive result? He enters into a protracted grievance process that ultimately is about a matter of opinion. Then if he wins and, on merit, the Leafs either play him on the 4th line or send him to the AHL(or press box him) where he's unlikely to do much to make a case for his next contract. Meanwhile he earns a reputation around the league as someone who causes trouble for his team. Then, when his deal is up, he's still someone who, again on merit, isn't likely to get a deal much beyond a PTO or a one year deal near the minimum.


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Offline WhatIfGodWasALeaf

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Re: The Lupul Situation
« Reply #17 on: September 17, 2017, 11:12:39 PM »
 It's interesting that he was standing on a pile of snow in the picture.

If he had a case, the NHLPA would be behind him.


Offline Nik the Trik

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Re: The Lupul Situation
« Reply #18 on: September 17, 2017, 11:19:41 PM »

But moving beyond the "why" I think we can all agree that the "what" here is pretty unassailable. I think we can all agree that the standard for "medically healthy enough to play" is probably different for guys like Robidas or Lupul than it would be for someone younger, with a better contract and who the team really wanted to get back into the line-up.
Give a man the reputation of an early riser and he can sleep 'til noon
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Offline CarltonTheBear

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Re: The Lupul Situation
« Reply #19 on: September 17, 2017, 11:26:55 PM »
Lupul would 100% be riding AHL buses if he did get medical clearance. He knows that. His life seems far more interesting as things stand right now.

Offline wnc096

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Re: The Lupul Situation
« Reply #20 on: September 18, 2017, 12:09:06 AM »
An instagram post obviously doesn't equal a formal complaint but hypothetically if Lupul appealed this and a 3rd party deemed him medically cleared that would put the Leafs in a crap-load of trouble on cap circumvention, right?  Like lose a bunch of 1st round picks kind of bad.

Pretty sure a doctor is signing off...I would hope there is some legit medical reason for a doctor to attach his reputation to it other than "lou said so"

Offline Guru Tugginmypuddah

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Re: The Lupul Situation
« Reply #21 on: September 18, 2017, 03:26:18 AM »
Touring Europe drinking beer and eating is a great way to get in shape for the upcoming NHL season.

Lupul looks very out of playing shape in his instagram photos. 

Offline Nik the Trik

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Re: The Lupul Situation
« Reply #22 on: September 18, 2017, 03:44:15 AM »
Touring Europe drinking beer and eating is a great way to get in shape for the upcoming NHL season.

Lupul looks very out of playing shape in his instagram photos.

Leaving aside that we constantly heard the same sort of thing about Kessel, why would Lupul care about being in shape for a NHL season he knows he's not going to play in?
Give a man the reputation of an early riser and he can sleep 'til noon
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Offline herman

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Re: The Lupul Situation
« Reply #23 on: September 18, 2017, 08:47:42 AM »
It's interesting that he was standing on a pile of snow in the picture.


Offline CarltonTheBear

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Re: The Lupul Situation
« Reply #24 on: September 18, 2017, 08:57:25 AM »
Also, if Lupul REALLY wanted to play hockey in the NHL and wanted a fresh start, he could easily agree to mutually terminate his contract and go look for an opportunity elsewhere.

Offline Nik the Trik

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Re: The Lupul Situation
« Reply #25 on: September 18, 2017, 09:53:25 AM »
Also, if Lupul REALLY wanted to play hockey in the NHL and wanted a fresh start, he could easily agree to mutually terminate his contract and go look for an opportunity elsewhere.

I don't think Lupul's aim here was to sound as if he's terribly unhappy with what's going on. I think he was saying that the reason he's goofing off is because he has effectively been asked by the Leafs to not play and as a result isn't concerned with trying to pass a physical the team doesn't want him to pass.

Still, I imagine for a guy his age I bet he bristles at the suggestion that the reason he's not playing is because he can't, as opposed to the plainly obvious fact that the Leafs don't want him to.
Give a man the reputation of an early riser and he can sleep 'til noon
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Offline Coco-puffs

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Re: The Lupul Situation
« Reply #26 on: September 18, 2017, 10:08:22 AM »
Also, if Lupul REALLY wanted to play hockey in the NHL and wanted a fresh start, he could easily agree to mutually terminate his contract and go look for an opportunity elsewhere.

I don't think Lupul's aim here was to sound as if he's terribly unhappy with what's going on. I think he was saying that the reason he's goofing off is because he has effectively been asked by the Leafs to not play and as a result isn't concerned with trying to pass a physical the team doesn't want him to pass.

Still, I imagine for a guy his age I bet he bristles at the suggestion that the reason he's not playing is because he can't, as opposed to the plainly obvious fact that the Leafs don't want him to.

Based on his skating prior to his last injury, he's in no way an NHL player anymore.  Who knows how much worse it might be after the last surgery (but we don't know that for sure).  I'm sure he THINKS he can still play in the NHL but the Leafs would have demoted him or bought him out by now (or traded him as a cap dump).

So, Leafs buy him out he gets less money and probably can't sign anywhere to recoup the money lost.  Demoted to AHL would hurt his pride even more, and I bet he wouldn't report.  Mutually agreed termination he loses all his remaining salary.  In reality, as bitter as he may be about it- not playing right now and collecting the full cheque is probably for the best for him.  Doesn't mean he isn't still bitter about it as we've seen. 

As for the NHL investigating whether he's "medically fit"... the CBA says the PA has to file a grievance on behalf of the player for the NHL to get involved, with the PA, to have another assessment done.  Otherwise, the NHL can't ask for their own assessment.  At least that is my understanding.  Someone posted the relevant section from the CBA last night on twitter but I can't find it now.

Offline Zee

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Re: The Lupul Situation
« Reply #27 on: September 18, 2017, 10:13:23 AM »
It's interesting that he was standing on a pile of snow in the picture.

If he had a case, the NHLPA would be behind him.

Would the NHLPA really be against what the Leafs are doing?  They're paying Lupul (an NHLPA member) not to play.  They didn't buy him out, they're not disputing what he's owed, they're paying him.  They're also paying someone else to play in a spot that Lupul would normally play.  So in effect, the Leafs have actually created more money for the NHLPA by paying 2 players instead of one.

Offline Coco-puffs

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Re: The Lupul Situation
« Reply #28 on: September 18, 2017, 10:16:31 AM »
Also, if Lupul REALLY wanted to play hockey in the NHL and wanted a fresh start, he could easily agree to mutually terminate his contract and go look for an opportunity elsewhere.

I don't think Lupul's aim here was to sound as if he's terribly unhappy with what's going on. I think he was saying that the reason he's goofing off is because he has effectively been asked by the Leafs to not play and as a result isn't concerned with trying to pass a physical the team doesn't want him to pass.

Still, I imagine for a guy his age I bet he bristles at the suggestion that the reason he's not playing is because he can't, as opposed to the plainly obvious fact that the Leafs don't want him to.

Based on his skating prior to his last injury, he's in no way an NHL player anymore.  Who knows how much worse it might be after the last surgery (but we don't know that for sure).  I'm sure he THINKS he can still play in the NHL but the Leafs would have demoted him or bought him out by now (or traded him as a cap dump).

So, Leafs buy him out he gets less money and probably can't sign anywhere to recoup the money lost.  Demoted to AHL would hurt his pride even more, and I bet he wouldn't report.  Mutually agreed termination he loses all his remaining salary.  In reality, as bitter as he may be about it- not playing right now and collecting the full cheque is probably for the best for him.  Doesn't mean he isn't still bitter about it as we've seen. 

As for the NHL investigating whether he's "medically fit"... the CBA says the PA has to file a grievance on behalf of the player for the NHL to get involved, with the PA, to have another assessment done.  Otherwise, the NHL can't ask for their own assessment.  At least that is my understanding.  Someone posted the relevant section from the CBA last night on twitter but I can't find it now.

Well shit... I was wrong.  Here is the section from the CBA, posted by someone else now


League can in fact challenge the medical assessment.  Player can also ask PA to file grievance on it.

I do wonder if the wording on that section matters.  Medically unfit to play could even mean able to live an active lifestyle- but not in good enough physical condition to actually play in the NHL.  Definite grey area. 

Offline Nik the Trik

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Re: The Lupul Situation
« Reply #29 on: September 18, 2017, 10:19:57 AM »
In reality, as bitter as he may be about it- not playing right now and collecting the full cheque is probably for the best for him.  Doesn't mean he isn't still bitter about it as we've seen. 

Again, I don't read any bitterness about his situation here. I think he resents the implication he can't play and is stating what I think we all know which is that if the Leafs really wanted him to be playing he probably could.

You might be right that time and injuries have eroded his skills to the point where he'd be a fringe-y NHL player at best but that's a far cry from "physically unable to play".
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Re: The Lupul Situation
« Reply #29 on: September 18, 2017, 10:19:57 AM »