Author Topic: Jays Roster Discussion  (Read 34252 times)

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Offline sickbeast

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Re: Jays Roster Discussion
« Reply #570 on: December 09, 2017, 09:11:19 PM »
Stanton to the Yankees.  With Ohtani going to the Angels that’s going to make the playoffs pretty unlikely for the Jays.  Maybe time to reconsider trading Donaldson at this point.
Things are up in the air right now with the Jays.  They can go one of two ways, and both choices have serious consequences for the long term future of the team.  They can go for it now by adding a couple of pieces, maybe Arrieta and a good outfielder.  Or, as you say, they can trade Donaldson and rebuild.  If they go for it and fail that could be devastating for the team.  Actually even if they load up I don't think they can beat the Yankees.  So the rebuild option looks safer, particularly if Rogers wants to sell the team.  The real wild card in all this is the fans.  If they rebuild they may lose a lot of fan support, and that has its on repercussions.  I know I wouldn't want to be Atkins or Shapiro right now.  They are in an extremely difficult situation.  I hope they are able to do a decent job.  This could be a very interesting off season.

Offline bustaheims

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Re: Jays Roster Discussion
« Reply #571 on: December 11, 2017, 11:20:18 AM »
Things are up in the air right now with the Jays.  They can go one of two ways, and both choices have serious consequences for the long term future of the team.  They can go for it now by adding a couple of pieces, maybe Arrieta and a good outfielder.  Or, as you say, they can trade Donaldson and rebuild.  If they go for it and fail that could be devastating for the team.  Actually even if they load up I don't think they can beat the Yankees.  So the rebuild option looks safer, particularly if Rogers wants to sell the team.  The real wild card in all this is the fans.  If they rebuild they may lose a lot of fan support, and that has its on repercussions.  I know I wouldn't want to be Atkins or Shapiro right now.  They are in an extremely difficult situation.  I hope they are able to do a decent job.  This could be a very interesting off season.

That's the crux of the situation, really. At this point, you have to look at what the most realistic scenario is for the next 3-5 years. Do they have a realistic shot at a title? I'd say no. I think that window closed after the 2016 season, and their current core players are already mostly into their 30s. The immediate future does not look particularly bright, and they're not a particularly appealing destination for free agents right now (especially starting pitchers - a lot of guys wouldn't want to face that Yankees' lineup multiple times a season right now, and I can't blame them). 3-5 years from now? The Yankees will be in the position the Jays are now, and, if the rebuild starts in earnest now, the Jays should should have some quality pieces hitting the MLB roster. Maybe a full-on scorched earth tear down is not the right play (as guys like Stroman, Sanchez, etc., could still be solid contributors in 3 years), but moving out some of the older, more expensive pieces - especially high value guys like Donaldson - is the smarter move right now.
"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

Offline hockeyfan1

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Re: Jays Roster Discussion
« Reply #572 on: December 11, 2017, 05:42:52 PM »
Things are up in the air right now with the Jays.  They can go one of two ways, and both choices have serious consequences for the long term future of the team.  They can go for it now by adding a couple of pieces, maybe Arrieta and a good outfielder.  Or, as you say, they can trade Donaldson and rebuild.  If they go for it and fail that could be devastating for the team.  Actually even if they load up I don't think they can beat the Yankees.  So the rebuild option looks safer, particularly if Rogers wants to sell the team.  The real wild card in all this is the fans.  If they rebuild they may lose a lot of fan support, and that has its on repercussions.  I know I wouldn't want to be Atkins or Shapiro right now.  They are in an extremely difficult situation.  I hope they are able to do a decent job.  This could be a very interesting off season.

That's the crux of the situation, really. At this point, you have to look at what the most realistic scenario is for the next 3-5 years. Do they have a realistic shot at a title? I'd say no. I think that window closed after the 2016 season, and their current core players are already mostly into their 30s. The immediate future does not look particularly bright, and they're not a particularly appealing destination for free agents right now (especially starting pitchers - a lot of guys wouldn't want to face that Yankees' lineup multiple times a season right now, and I can't blame them). 3-5 years from now? The Yankees will be in the position the Jays are now, and, if the rebuild starts in earnest now, the Jays should should have some quality pieces hitting the MLB roster. Maybe a full-on scorched earth tear down is not the right play (as guys like Stroman, Sanchez, etc., could still be solid contributors in 3 years), but moving out some of the older, more expensive pieces - especially high value guys like Donaldson - is the smarter move right now.


I agree here.  Doing things in half-measures isn't going to get the Jays very far, either in the near nor long-term.  Success requires careful planning, vision, and foresight, something this team needs to begin gaining some ground on if it even hopes to be a contender once again in the near future.

Online WhatIfGodWasALeaf

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Re: Jays Roster Discussion
« Reply #573 on: December 13, 2017, 11:25:36 AM »
They need to blow it up and rebuild/retool.

They have some young pieces that can be part of a great team in 2/3 years, but for now, guys like Donaldson need to go, the roster as presently constructed has no shot at winning a championship and close to no shot at the playoffs.

Get what you can for guys 28+ and see what you have in your farm system when the dust settles.

Offline sickbeast

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Re: Jays Roster Discussion
« Reply #574 on: December 13, 2017, 05:58:31 PM »
They need to blow it up and rebuild/retool.

They have some young pieces that can be part of a great team in 2/3 years, but for now, guys like Donaldson need to go, the roster as presently constructed has no shot at winning a championship and close to no shot at the playoffs.

Get what you can for guys 28+ and see what you have in your farm system when the dust settles.
Shapiro said today that the Blue Jays should have done a rebuild a year ago but they were afraid of what it would do to the fan base.  So take that for what it's worth.  I'm not sure what to read into it.  Either he's saying that they're still too afraid to do the rebuild, or else that it's even more urgent now seeing as they should have done it already.  It's kind of nebulous.  I'm sure that was intentional on Shapiro's behalf.

Offline Arn

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Re: Jays Roster Discussion
« Reply #575 on: December 13, 2017, 06:05:55 PM »
Rumours that they're talking to Sabbathia. Not sure what hints that gives at rebuild or no
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Offline Nik the Trik

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Re: Jays Roster Discussion
« Reply #576 on: December 13, 2017, 06:09:32 PM »

My love of saying I told you so aside, I did say all this when they made those moves in the summer of 2015 and when AA left. The thing is now they should be generating some pitching/roster prospects so that hopefully you can build a real organization around guys like Guerrero.
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Offline sickbeast

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Re: Jays Roster Discussion
« Reply #577 on: December 13, 2017, 06:39:26 PM »
Well, the bigger problem is that Shapiro and Atkins feel that they can't do their best job as president and GM without being affected by outside influences.  Shapiro basically came out and said today that he hasn't been making decisions in the absolute best interests of the team.  He has been allowing outside influences (the fanbase and possibly ownership also) to cloud his judgement.  We all know what this BS did to the Leafs for all those years.  This could be the start of the dark ages for the Blue Jays, unfortunately.

Offline Nik the Trik

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Re: Jays Roster Discussion
« Reply #578 on: December 13, 2017, 06:51:41 PM »
Well, the bigger problem is that Shapiro and Atkins feel that they can't do their best job as president and GM without being affected by outside influences.  Shapiro basically came out and said today that he hasn't been making decisions in the absolute best interests of the team.  He has been allowing outside influences (the fanbase and possibly ownership also) to cloud his judgement.  We all know what this BS did to the Leafs for all those years.  This could be the start of the dark ages for the Blue Jays, unfortunately.

I don't really think "ownership" qualifies as an outside interest. Sports teams are businesses, businesses are into making money. For years the Leafs were lazy because of their belief that they would be profitable no matter what. Other teams don't have that luxury and so, yes, they make decisions with one eye on the bottom line. That's not really a problem to be solved and it's not unique to the Jays.
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Offline sickbeast

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Re: Jays Roster Discussion
« Reply #579 on: December 14, 2017, 06:43:27 PM »
My point is that Atkins and Shapiro don't have autonomy in a true sense. It's a big problem IMO.

Offline sickbeast

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Re: Jays Roster Discussion
« Reply #580 on: December 24, 2017, 09:41:41 AM »
It really seems like management is doing nothing.  I really thought we would hear something by now.  Apathy is going to get the Jays nowhere.  They either need to go for it or rebuild.  Standing pat with their current roster when then came in last place last season is a recipe for disaster.

Offline The Empire

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Re: Jays Roster Discussion
« Reply #581 on: December 24, 2017, 12:45:50 PM »
The best we can hope for in 2018 is the pitching staff remains healthy, Travis(best pure hitter on the team) and Tulo come back healthy and remain that way the entire season,  possibly sign JB to a 1 year incentive laden contract he might be good for 20 homers and a .750+ OPS.  That would put us in contention for a wild card spot.  We are better than the Rays and the Orioles

Offline Nik the Trik

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Re: Jays Roster Discussion
« Reply #582 on: December 24, 2017, 01:13:38 PM »
It really seems like management is doing nothing.  I really thought we would hear something by now.  Apathy is going to get the Jays nowhere.  They either need to go for it or rebuild.  Standing pat with their current roster when then came in last place last season is a recipe for disaster.

I agree. Doing nothing seems the worst of all of the options.
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Offline Nik the Trik

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Re: Jays Roster Discussion
« Reply #583 on: December 24, 2017, 01:15:55 PM »
The best we can hope for in 2018 is the pitching staff remains healthy, Travis(best pure hitter on the team) and Tulo come back healthy and remain that way the entire season,  possibly sign JB to a 1 year incentive laden contract he might be good for 20 homers and a .750+ OPS.  That would put us in contention for a wild card spot.  We are better than the Rays and the Orioles

The issue for the WC isn't likely to be the Rays or Orioles. It'll be being better than teams like the Angels, Twins and Red Sox.
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Offline Dappleganger

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Re: Jays Roster Discussion
« Reply #584 on: December 24, 2017, 01:47:25 PM »
It really seems like management is doing nothing.  I really thought we would hear something by now.  Apathy is going to get the Jays nowhere.  They either need to go for it or rebuild.  Standing pat with their current roster when then came in last place last season is a recipe for disaster.

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Re: Jays Roster Discussion
« Reply #584 on: December 24, 2017, 01:47:25 PM »