Author Topic: So the debate begins: Matthews vs. Laine  (Read 32320 times)

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Online bustaheims

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Re: So the debate begins: Matthews vs. Laine
« Reply #30 on: April 30, 2016, 11:24:44 PM »
But "recency bias" could just as easily be interpreted as moe scouts getting the chance to closely watch what Laine's doing and thus them having more information.

It could be, but, it strikes me as being awfully similar to how players jump up or fall down the draft board immediately after the World Juniors, only to frequently end up back in the vicinity of where they were ranked before the tournament by the time the draft rolls around.
"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

Offline Wendel's Fist

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Re: So the debate begins: Matthews vs. Laine
« Reply #31 on: April 30, 2016, 11:26:50 PM »
There is no debate. Does anyone here actually think that Shanahan's smile on his face after we won the draft was because we might pick Laine? He would have already been smiling like that when we were guaranteed the #2 pick, if that were the case.

It's nice to see what some scouts are saying but I bet my bottom dollar that if any team in this league had the #1 overall pick in this year's draft, they'd all pick Matthews. Kind of like McDavid over Eichel.

There's nothing to debate about.

Offline Nik the Trik

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Re: So the debate begins: Matthews vs. Laine
« Reply #32 on: April 30, 2016, 11:33:31 PM »

It could be, but, it strikes me as being awfully similar to how players jump up or fall down the draft board immediately after the World Juniors, only to frequently end up back in the vicinity of where they were ranked before the tournament by the time the draft rolls around.

I guess but because that also happened with Laine this year after how terrific he was at the WJC it's hard not to see this as, at least in part, a measure of momentum. I was sarcastic with Herman about the way some guys get picked apart over the course of a season if they're on top but a lot of times that happens and...it turns out to be kind of right. I mean, Kessel was thought by many to be a #1 guy and over the course of the year some teams decided they liked Staal or Toews or Backstrom more. Mackinnon/Jones was thought to be an easy #1/#2 choice and while Tampa maybe regrets not taking Jones, I bet Florida doesn't.

Again, and I can't stress this enough, ask me to pick today and I'm with you. I pick Matthews. Alls I'm saying is we don't have to. We can watch the World Championships and how they do there. We can see how they look and see what they do at the combine. There is absolutely no downside to maintaining an open mind on the question. 
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Offline Nik the Trik

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Re: So the debate begins: Matthews vs. Laine
« Reply #33 on: April 30, 2016, 11:36:39 PM »
There is no debate. Does anyone here actually think that Shanahan's smile on his face after we won the draft was because we might pick Laine? He would have already been smiling like that when we were guaranteed the #2 pick, if that were the case.

It's nice to see what some scouts are saying but I bet my bottom dollar that if any team in this league had the #1 overall pick in this year's draft, they'd all pick Matthews. Kind of like McDavid over Eichel.

There's nothing to debate about.

How much hockey have you watched either guy play?
Give a man the reputation of an early riser and he can sleep 'til noon
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Offline Wendel's Fist

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Re: So the debate begins: Matthews vs. Laine
« Reply #34 on: April 30, 2016, 11:44:48 PM »
There is no debate. Does anyone here actually think that Shanahan's smile on his face after we won the draft was because we might pick Laine? He would have already been smiling like that when we were guaranteed the #2 pick, if that were the case.

It's nice to see what some scouts are saying but I bet my bottom dollar that if any team in this league had the #1 overall pick in this year's draft, they'd all pick Matthews. Kind of like McDavid over Eichel.

There's nothing to debate about.

How much hockey have you watched either guy play?

Actually probably a bit more than you may have.

Your point?


Offline Nik the Trik

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Re: So the debate begins: Matthews vs. Laine
« Reply #35 on: April 30, 2016, 11:50:50 PM »

Your point?

That all any of us are going by is what scouts are saying and what scouts seem to be saying is the exact opposite of "there is no debate". I'm happy and not at all defensive to admit I've watched no more of either guy than a few WJC games. 

But then again, you're the one staying up to watch HZ Zurich games, not me. 
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Offline Wendel's Fist

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Re: So the debate begins: Matthews vs. Laine
« Reply #36 on: May 01, 2016, 12:02:01 AM »

Your point?

That all any of us are going by is what scouts are saying and what scouts seem to be saying is the exact opposite of "there is no debate". I'm happy and not at all defensive to admit I've watched no more of either guy than a few WJC games. 

But then again, you're the one staying up to watch HZ Zurich games, not me.

Yeah, so I'm not seeing the point of the thread when you've said yourself that you'd pick Matthews. Either way, I now remember why this site is so damn boring now.

See you at the next draft or something.

Offline Nik the Trik

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Re: So the debate begins: Matthews vs. Laine
« Reply #37 on: May 01, 2016, 12:13:31 AM »

Yeah, so I'm not seeing the point of the thread when you've said yourself that you'd pick Matthews.

The point of the thread is that contrary to your statement there is a debate. And it's not a debate among random internet knuckleheads, it's a debate among the people paid by NHL teams to evaluate draft prospects. This debate is going to play out over the next two months.

2 of the 10 scouts said they prefer Laine. That's 20%. I'd say a 20% chance of something turning out is kind of relevant tonight.
Give a man the reputation of an early riser and he can sleep 'til noon
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Offline Bill_Berg

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Re: So the debate begins: Matthews vs. Laine
« Reply #38 on: May 01, 2016, 12:25:12 AM »

Yeah, so I'm not seeing the point of the thread when you've said yourself that you'd pick Matthews.

The point of the thread is that contrary to your statement there is a debate. And it's not a debate among random internet knuckleheads, it's a debate among the people paid by NHL teams to evaluate draft prospects. This debate is going to play out over the next two months.

2 of the 10 scouts said they prefer Laine. That's 20%. I'd say a 20% chance of something turning out is kind of relevant tonight.

Booooring.

Online herman

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Re: So the debate begins: Matthews vs. Laine
« Reply #39 on: May 01, 2016, 12:48:33 AM »
In this case it isn't really Matthews' flaws pushing him down the list, but more like Laine's recent performance that is edging him into the conversation. Certainly worth doing due diligence and not drafting like its a foregone conclusion.

Certainly makes the world championships a lot more interesting now.

Offline crazyperfectdevil

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Re: So the debate begins: Matthews vs. Laine
« Reply #40 on: May 01, 2016, 02:51:36 AM »
i'd agree with that.  That I'm pretty sure it's Matthews but this does make the worlds more interesting and almost in an infinitely better way then we would have already been interested in the worlds when drafting second.  Like we're window shopping prospects.

Offline Andy

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Re: So the debate begins: Matthews vs. Laine
« Reply #41 on: May 01, 2016, 07:36:27 AM »




 

I love it. Ask for peoples' opinion and then criticize them for not having the basis or knowledge to give said opinion.

Anyway the guides I looked at here:
 
http://www.habseyesontheprize.com/2016/4/30/11541984/average-rankings-of-the-top-12-prospects-heading-into-the-2016-nhl-draft-scouting-profiles-ranks

all had Matthews going 1st. And two of the seven had Laine going 3rd. Seems to me like it's a pretty one-sided debate. But then again, I haven't watched much of either player so who the hell knows what any of this means. Wendel, help!

Online Frank E

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Re: So the debate begins: Matthews vs. Laine
« Reply #42 on: May 01, 2016, 08:28:42 AM »
Komarov Stamkos Kadri
Hyman Nylander Soshnikov
Leipsic Matthews -  Brown
Greening Laich Marner
Michalek - Leivo

Marincin - Rielly
Gardiner Zaitsev
Hunwick - Carrick
Harrington Loov - Corrado

Offline L K

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Re: So the debate begins: Matthews vs. Laine
« Reply #43 on: May 01, 2016, 08:37:39 AM »

Your point?

That all any of us are going by is what scouts are saying and what scouts seem to be saying is the exact opposite of "there is no debate". I'm happy and not at all defensive to admit I've watched no more of either guy than a few WJC games. 

But then again, you're the one staying up to watch HZ Zurich games, not me.

Yeah, so I'm not seeing the point of the thread when you've said yourself that you'd pick Matthews. Either way, I now remember why this site is so damn boring now.

See you at the next draft or something.

So your argument is discussion is stupid.  This place is boring because someone brought up a discussion point that you don't like.   Get the stick out of your ass.

Offline Bullfrog

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Re: So the debate begins: Matthews vs. Laine
« Reply #44 on: May 01, 2016, 08:44:09 AM »
I think it's an interesting question, though somewhat arbitrary: clearly either would be a good choice.

I think it's the time to go with the "safe" choice though. Yes, while Laine is now being talked about as a possible #1 but a few scouts, he's also been slipping between 2/3. Matthews, until very recently, has been 1 and only 1 and all we have is one article where a reporter states that 2 of 10 scouts might have Laine as 1.

Go with the consensus: take Matthews. There should still be debate, obviously, but I'm confident Auston Matthews will be a Leaf.

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Re: So the debate begins: Matthews vs. Laine
« Reply #44 on: May 01, 2016, 08:44:09 AM »