Author Topic: So the debate begins: Matthews vs. Laine  (Read 32321 times)

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Offline Significantly Insignificant

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Re: So the debate begins: Matthews vs. Laine
« Reply #15 on: April 30, 2016, 10:31:38 PM »

Maybe not crazy, but Kane is the only one on the list with a cup win.  You can build around a winger as you say.  Just not sure how effective that team is going to be in the playoffs.

Eh. That seems to be sort of specious reasoning. The reason the Thrashers didn't win the cup wasn't Ilya Kovalchuk. Teemu Selanne was the best forward on a Cup winning team. So was Martin St. Louis and Henrik Zetterberg and none of the Devils teams had any true elite #1 center and so on.

I see your point.   You still need that centre presence though.  Holik, and Arnott, Lecalvier and Richards, Getzlaf and Macdonald ( okay so that last one is pretty weak).  Those are some big and talented centres.  Zetterberg had Datsyuk, who is pretty good, and has been mentioned as a top five centre in the league in his prime.  Even in Washington now, alot of there success is attributed to the emergence of Kuznetsov.  Nylander and Marner could evolve in to those types of centres, but if they don't then you might be at a disadvantage. 

Your centres don't have to be point producers but then they probably need to be the two way types like Toews, Kopitar and Bergeron.  I don't know if Marner or Nylander will become those types of centres.
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Offline Tigger

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Re: So the debate begins: Matthews vs. Laine
« Reply #16 on: April 30, 2016, 10:37:15 PM »

C'mon, the only place this is headed, legitimately, is putting a gun to Winnipegs head and taking something from them. There is no way the Leafs are taking Laine over Matthews without it. I mean, if it's just Laine versus Matthews, seriously?

I'm not pulling this stuff out of nowhere. Though. Some scouts are saying Laine's the better prospect. Others are saying it's real close. Sure, if the Leafs fall into the Laine is better camp and the Jets are crazy high on Matthews then you can get something out of it but what if both teams prefer Laine?

They don't, this is silly.
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Offline Significantly Insignificant

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Re: So the debate begins: Matthews vs. Laine
« Reply #17 on: April 30, 2016, 10:41:01 PM »
So after thinking about this, I think that you would take Laine if you think he has a legitimate chance to become one of the top 3 or 4 wingers in the league.  Matthews may not get in to that sort of realm given the slate of centres in the game.  With the likes of Eichel, McDavid, Tavares, Seguin, Crosby, Malkin, Stamkos (depending on what position he plays) then he may not ever crack in to that best in the league conversation. 

It would be nice if the Leafs got a piece that could be considered the best in the league at their position at some point.
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Offline bustaheims

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Re: So the debate begins: Matthews vs. Laine
« Reply #18 on: April 30, 2016, 10:49:46 PM »
Matthews, easily. There's too much potential for there to have been a good amount of recency bias impacting the scouts surveyed by TSN. Matthews has been off for almost 2 months now. Laine's season ended a few days ago.
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Offline Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate

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Re: So the debate begins: Matthews vs. Laine
« Reply #19 on: April 30, 2016, 10:51:21 PM »
There is no debate. But thank God we can even discuss it.

Offline Nik the Trik

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Re: So the debate begins: Matthews vs. Laine
« Reply #20 on: April 30, 2016, 10:52:56 PM »

They don't, this is silly.

I'm sorry I really don't see why you're dismissing this so out of hand. Do you think the scouts talking to TSN are dumb? Lying? Somehow personally invested in making the Draft a more exciting broadcast? 
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Online herman

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Re: So the debate begins: Matthews vs. Laine
« Reply #21 on: April 30, 2016, 10:54:41 PM »
http://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/2016/4/29/11537530/ppp-round-table-shooting-for-the-giant-auston-matthews

This is a good conversation about Matthews and what he brings to the table.

Skill, speed, smarts, and size.

Offline Nik the Trik

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Re: So the debate begins: Matthews vs. Laine
« Reply #22 on: April 30, 2016, 10:55:02 PM »
Matthews, easily. There's too much potential for there to have been a good amount of recency bias impacting the scouts surveyed by TSN. Matthews has been off for almost 2 months now. Laine's season ended a few days ago.

But "recency bias" could just as easily be interpreted as moe scouts getting the chance to closely watch what Laine's doing and thus them having more information. One of the reasons Laine's season ended a few days ago is because his team won the championship and he was the MVP. 
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Offline Tigger

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Re: So the debate begins: Matthews vs. Laine
« Reply #23 on: April 30, 2016, 10:57:50 PM »

They don't, this is silly.

I'm sorry I really don't see why you're dismissing this so out of hand. Do you think the scouts talking to TSN are dumb? Lying? Somehow personally invested in making the Draft a more exciting broadcast?

I hate to agree with Button but this is about as no brainer as it gets. Laine would have to be pushing the one spot well before now in a meaningful way to say otherwise, cogently.
"My father was born shortly after the Wright Brothers" Charlie Duke

Online herman

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Re: So the debate begins: Matthews vs. Laine
« Reply #24 on: April 30, 2016, 10:58:13 PM »
Matthews, easily. There's too much potential for there to have been a good amount of recency bias impacting the scouts surveyed by TSN. Matthews has been off for almost 2 months now. Laine's season ended a few days ago.

This. Laine had a dazzling world juniors.

When you're at the top of the list for so long, people start looking for reasons to knock you down (see Chychrun).

Offline Nik the Trik

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Re: So the debate begins: Matthews vs. Laine
« Reply #25 on: April 30, 2016, 11:00:41 PM »

When you're at the top of the list for so long, people start looking for reasons to knock you down (see Chychrun).

Sure. Remember all the talk last year about how opinion was divided on Connor McDavid? Or how some scouts liked Bobby Ryan better than Sid Crosby?
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Offline Bill_Berg

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Re: So the debate begins: Matthews vs. Laine
« Reply #26 on: April 30, 2016, 11:02:35 PM »
I've seen the talk about Laine being considered as the #1 guy this draft. I just don't think there's enough time for him to usurp Matthews. And it's the position that is the insurmountable obstacle for Laine. If they were both centres or both wingers, the debate would rage, but the best that Laine can do is create doubt now, and when in doubt, the default is pick the centre.



Offline Significantly Insignificant

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Re: So the debate begins: Matthews vs. Laine
« Reply #27 on: April 30, 2016, 11:04:23 PM »
I've seen the talk about Laine being considered as the #1 guy this draft. I just don't think there's enough time for him to usurp Matthews. And it's the position that is the insurmountable obstacle for Laine. If they were both centres or both wingers, the debate would rage, but the best that Laine can do is create doubt now, and when in doubt, the default is pick the centre.

McKeen was saying a couple of months ago that some scouts say that they think Laine may play centre in the NHL.
"Progress lies not in enhancing what is, but in advancing toward what will be. - Khalil Gibran

Offline Bill_Berg

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Re: So the debate begins: Matthews vs. Laine
« Reply #28 on: April 30, 2016, 11:10:24 PM »
I've seen the talk about Laine being considered as the #1 guy this draft. I just don't think there's enough time for him to usurp Matthews. And it's the position that is the insurmountable obstacle for Laine. If they were both centres or both wingers, the debate would rage, but the best that Laine can do is create doubt now, and when in doubt, the default is pick the centre.

McKeen was saying a couple of months ago that some scouts say that they think Laine may play centre in the NHL.

Makes me think, but I still don't think that's enough. For sure, if I'm the Leafs, I'm happy I have some time to decide.

Offline Dappleganger

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Re: So the debate begins: Matthews vs. Laine
« Reply #29 on: April 30, 2016, 11:17:30 PM »
I really wanted the Leafs to get the second pick because I really wanted the Leafs to pick Laine.

With the first pick, you take Matthews. No doubt.

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Re: So the debate begins: Matthews vs. Laine
« Reply #29 on: April 30, 2016, 11:17:30 PM »