Author Topic: 2016 Lead up to the Trade Deadline thread  (Read 28247 times)

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Offline CarltonTheBear

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Re: 2016 Lead up to the Trade Deadline thread
« Reply #30 on: January 19, 2016, 10:42:38 AM »
True, but they also have LA's 1st round pick this year. So, there's definitely potential for something to be worked out involving a 1st round pick - it just may involve some complicated conditions and some potential for additional late round picks to be added, or something along those lines.

Yeah, I forgot about LA's pick. If that's the pick they're moving it might make them a little more open to it, but I still have doubts. And to be clear, I'm talking about this strictly from a Carolina perspective. If there was a team in more of a win-now mode who needed a goalie and a top-6 winger then I could see them potentially interested in moving their 1st for that package. I just don't think that Carolina is in a position to make that type of splash.

They'd probably be more interested in the cheaper Boyes option.

edit: Or like I said, someone with term like Komarov.
« Last Edit: January 19, 2016, 10:47:00 AM by CarltonTheBear »

Offline bustaheims

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Re: 2016 Lead up to the Trade Deadline thread
« Reply #31 on: January 19, 2016, 10:56:10 AM »
Yeah, I forgot about LA's pick. If that's the pick they're moving it might make them a little more open to it, but I still have doubts. And to be clear, I'm talking about this strictly from a Carolina perspective. If there was a team in more of a win-now mode who needed a goalie and a top-6 winger then I could see them potentially interested in moving their 1st for that package. I just don't think that Carolina is in a position to make that type of splash. They'd probably be more interested in the cheaper Boyes option.

I don't know. I feel like the Canes might be feeling some pressure to get back into the playoffs. With the recent changes in their front office and all, they may be willing to make that kind of splash, as long as there are the Leafs would agree to the kind of conditions that makes it a lower risk move.
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Offline sneakyray

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Re: 2016 Lead up to the Trade Deadline thread
« Reply #32 on: January 19, 2016, 11:49:04 AM »
I got one...polak to the pens for the 2nd from teh winnik deal back plus removing the conditions on the first next year...so their at least getting a first for sure.  plus maybe some salary back.

Offline sneakyray

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Re: 2016 Lead up to the Trade Deadline thread
« Reply #33 on: January 19, 2016, 11:51:10 AM »
Yeah, I forgot about LA's pick. If that's the pick they're moving it might make them a little more open to it, but I still have doubts. And to be clear, I'm talking about this strictly from a Carolina perspective. If there was a team in more of a win-now mode who needed a goalie and a top-6 winger then I could see them potentially interested in moving their 1st for that package. I just don't think that Carolina is in a position to make that type of splash. They'd probably be more interested in the cheaper Boyes option.

I don't know. I feel like the Canes might be feeling some pressure to get back into the playoffs. With the recent changes in their front office and all, they may be willing to make that kind of splash, as long as there are the Leafs would agree to the kind of conditions that makes it a lower risk move.

I have a hard time seeing anyone giving up a first for a few months of pap(sort of a top six winger but not necessarily) and james reimer who has trouble staying healthy.

Offline bustaheims

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Re: 2016 Lead up to the Trade Deadline thread
« Reply #34 on: January 19, 2016, 12:01:39 PM »
I have a hard time seeing anyone giving up a first for a few months of pap(sort of a top six winger but not necessarily) and james reimer who has trouble staying healthy.

The Canes are getting ~.900 goaltending so far this season. Even if Reimer only gets into half their games the rest of the way, he'd represent a HUGE upgrade - probably enough to get them into the playoffs. As for Parenteau, players with similar production that were traded at recent deadlines returned at least a 2nd round pick - and, outside of a poor season with the Habs last year, PAP has a pretty solid history of offensive production. He is absolutely a 2nd line winger. The two together shoudl return at least a 1st round pick, and if not, they should be trade separately.
« Last Edit: January 19, 2016, 12:03:53 PM by bustaheims »
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Offline sneakyray

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Re: 2016 Lead up to the Trade Deadline thread
« Reply #35 on: January 19, 2016, 12:06:37 PM »
but last year it was apparently like pulling teeth to get a first for franson and santorelli.  and now reimer and pap are worth it.  I just think that even if pap will get you a second if the best dman available barely got you a first teams just dont pay as much for goalies.

Offline Nik the Trik

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Re: 2016 Lead up to the Trade Deadline thread
« Reply #36 on: January 19, 2016, 12:58:26 PM »
but last year it was apparently like pulling teeth to get a first for franson and santorelli.  and now reimer and pap are worth it.  I just think that even if pap will get you a second if the best dman available barely got you a first teams just dont pay as much for goalies.

Most breakdowns of the deal had it as Franson for the 1st and Santorelli for Leipsic. And it couldn't have been too difficult to get done as it was accomplished, if memory serves, weeks before the deadline.
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Offline bustaheims

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Re: 2016 Lead up to the Trade Deadline thread
« Reply #37 on: January 19, 2016, 01:08:04 PM »
Most breakdowns of the deal had it as Franson for the 1st and Santorelli for Leipsic. And it couldn't have been too difficult to get done as it was accomplished, if memory serves, weeks before the deadline.

Yeah, it was well in advance of the deadline. The report there was more that the Leafs found a deal they really liked, and took it instead of waiting until teams got a little more desperate closer to the deadline. We saw 5 1st rounders from the 2015 draft get moved in the ~2 weeks leading up to the deadline (one which was conditional, and ended up being this year's pick instead) and another moved earlier in the season. So, pulling teeth? Maybe well in advance of the deadline, but, in the few days before and deadline day? Teams that thought they could add players that might push them over the hump weren't concerned about moving them.
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Offline sneakyray

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Re: 2016 Lead up to the Trade Deadline thread
« Reply #38 on: January 19, 2016, 01:24:21 PM »
Most breakdowns of the deal had it as Franson for the 1st and Santorelli for Leipsic. And it couldn't have been too difficult to get done as it was accomplished, if memory serves, weeks before the deadline.

Yeah, it was well in advance of the deadline. The report there was more that the Leafs found a deal they really liked, and took it instead of waiting until teams got a little more desperate closer to the deadline. We saw 5 1st rounders from the 2015 draft get moved in the ~2 weeks leading up to the deadline (one which was conditional, and ended up being this year's pick instead) and another moved earlier in the season. So, pulling teeth? Maybe well in advance of the deadline, but, in the few days before and deadline day? Teams that thought they could add players that might push them over the hump weren't concerned about moving them.

well I certainly hope they can wrangle one more 1st rounder this year.  I just don't think that trade is going to include reimer or pap.  I do agree with you that pap should fetch a 2nd but I find it hard to judge reimers value because goalies don't bring large returns.

I think torontos best chance at a first this year are komarov...jvr if they decide to move him, same with kadri, gardiner and I think that bozak might have a small chance at bringing a late first if he continues to play well.

Offline sneakyray

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Re: 2016 Lead up to the Trade Deadline thread
« Reply #39 on: January 19, 2016, 01:28:58 PM »
but last year it was apparently like pulling teeth to get a first for franson and santorelli.  and now reimer and pap are worth it.  I just think that even if pap will get you a second if the best dman available barely got you a first teams just dont pay as much for goalies.

Most breakdowns of the deal had it as Franson for the 1st and Santorelli for Leipsic. And it couldn't have been too difficult to get done as it was accomplished, if memory serves, weeks before the deadline.

yes, but I thought it was more like they better trade him while they're offering a first because it won't get any higher closer to the deadline.

Offline bustaheims

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Re: 2016 Lead up to the Trade Deadline thread
« Reply #40 on: January 19, 2016, 01:40:11 PM »
well I certainly hope they can wrangle one more 1st rounder this year.  I just don't think that trade is going to include reimer or pap.  I do agree with you that pap should fetch a 2nd but I find it hard to judge reimers value because goalies don't bring large returns.

Goalie values fluctuate more than any other position, and, from the looks of things, they're on the upswing. This summer, we saw a number of goalies who had yet to prove they could be starters in the NHL (and who were mostly around the same age as Reimer) get moved for 1st round picks or multiple picks in the 2nd and 3rd rounds. A couple years ago, I would have agreed with you on the value of goalies, but, I'm not sure it's true anymore.
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Offline Nik the Trik

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Re: 2016 Lead up to the Trade Deadline thread
« Reply #41 on: January 19, 2016, 01:46:40 PM »
well I certainly hope they can wrangle one more 1st rounder this year.  I just don't think that trade is going to include reimer or pap.  I do agree with you that pap should fetch a 2nd but I find it hard to judge reimers value because goalies don't bring large returns.

Goalie values fluctuate more than any other position, and, from the looks of things, they're on the upswing. This summer, we saw a number of goalies who had yet to prove they could be starters in the NHL (and who were mostly around the same age as Reimer) get moved for 1st round picks or multiple picks in the 2nd and 3rd rounds. A couple years ago, I would have agreed with you on the value of goalies, but, I'm not sure it's true anymore.

Also, it's tough to gauge the value of goalies precisely because it's pretty rare for a team to be in the Leafs' position where they have essentially no chance of making the playoffs but still have a goalie who you can credibly sell as a potential #1 based on his current play. Ryan Miller might be the last guy who got dealt in that situation.
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Offline CarltonTheBear

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Re: 2016 Lead up to the Trade Deadline thread
« Reply #42 on: January 20, 2016, 09:14:58 AM »
I knew that Anaheim had a great collection of young defencemen, but I don't think you really appreciate it until you line them all up:

Fowler
Lindholm
Vatanen
Theodore
Despres

That's 5 NHL defencemen, all 24 years old or younger. Just loaded. Now, which one are we trading for JVR?

Offline bustaheims

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Re: 2016 Lead up to the Trade Deadline thread
« Reply #43 on: January 20, 2016, 09:29:10 AM »
I knew that Anaheim had a great collection of young defencemen, but I don't think you really appreciate it until you line them all up:

Fowler
Lindholm
Vatanen
Theodore
Despres

That's 5 NHL defencemen, all 24 years old or younger. Just loaded. Now, which one are we trading for JVR?

Lindholm and Vatanen are both pending RFAs, Despres has a big pay increase kicking in next season, and the Ducks look like they could use some help up front . . . I think you're on to something, CtB. ;)
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Offline Significantly Insignificant

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Re: 2016 Lead up to the Trade Deadline thread
« Reply #44 on: January 20, 2016, 10:45:39 AM »
well I certainly hope they can wrangle one more 1st rounder this year.  I just don't think that trade is going to include reimer or pap.  I do agree with you that pap should fetch a 2nd but I find it hard to judge reimers value because goalies don't bring large returns.

Goalie values fluctuate more than any other position, and, from the looks of things, they're on the upswing. This summer, we saw a number of goalies who had yet to prove they could be starters in the NHL (and who were mostly around the same age as Reimer) get moved for 1st round picks or multiple picks in the 2nd and 3rd rounds. A couple years ago, I would have agreed with you on the value of goalies, but, I'm not sure it's true anymore.

Also, it's tough to gauge the value of goalies precisely because it's pretty rare for a team to be in the Leafs' position where they have essentially no chance of making the playoffs but still have a goalie who you can credibly sell as a potential #1 based on his current play. Ryan Miller might be the last guy who got dealt in that situation.

I wonder if the parity in the league will have a negative impact on the prices of players.  I think you'll see more prospects dangled than picks.  Teams might not want to move their picks because there is a higher chance that they will miss the playoffs due to the lack of a gap in points between them and other teams.  It may be enough of a disincentive to drive prices down on rentals who don't have a high impact on the game, but are more of a depth player.  For guys like Gardiner, JVR, and Kadri, I could see the price staying high because they are young and can can have a positive impact on a team by filling a glaring hole.  Guys like Boyes, Matthias and Parenteau are probably perceived as being nice to have, but not essential.
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Re: 2016 Lead up to the Trade Deadline thread
« Reply #44 on: January 20, 2016, 10:45:39 AM »